Has anyone here ever read Sun Tzu and the Art of War? Within this text, he says never fight a battle you cannot win. With this being said, it is obvious that President George W. Bush or his advisors never read this content. Bush has declared war on the idea of terrorism. You cannot bring a halt to terrorism, it’s just not possible. It’s like bacteria. When somebody freezes bacteria, it is just putting the bacteria growth on pause. After a while the bacteria will start to spread again and this time stronger. Fighting this war is making things worse. If you were a twelve-year-old kid and your home has been bombed in Afghanistan, and all of your family died, and you were told it was the Americans, handed a gun and told to start fighting, you would fight with a vengeance. We can try to be the international police, but how many of our men are we willing to sacrifice to fight a war that is not meant to be fought. We should pull out of Iraq.

__________________

-Locke

I'm pretty sure that even Georgie has read Art of War (at least the Cliff's Notes). You can be sure that Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rove and Wolfowitz know it well.

You are assuming that their ends for the means of war is are the same ends you are being told they are. I would suggest that they are not. "The War on Terror" is nothing more than grease on the wheel to provide a perpetual excuse for invasion, regime change and remaking the world to the ideals of a handful of men.

We have found ourselves the proverbial child left alone in a candy shop. Do we show restraint and responsible behavior, or do we gorge ourselves at the expense of trust and integrity?

We are the only Super Power in the world for the first time. And it's not likely to stay that way for long unless, as the PNAC/Neo-Con agenda asserts, we take advantage of this opportunity to discourage/prevent up and comers from trying to challenge USA dominance... ever!

Frankly, this is a very real issue. The only way to derail China, India and a re-emergent Russia, is to have control over the single strategic resource that none of them can do without, militarily... OIL! While all of them have the resources to mobilize against us, they cannot maintain a prolonged conflict if we starve them of the fuel to function. Where armies used to travel on their stomachs, in the modern age they travel on diesel and jet fuel.

These conflicts were never about 9/11, terrorism, WMD. They were never responses to events, but the opening gate to a much farther reaching objective.

__________________
S.O.S. ------ United We Stand, Divided We Fall

So what do you propose we do? Nothing? Let terrorists and terror states roam free? What is your plan?

I think you have finally lost it. Even if you are correct (which you are not) what is wrong with eliminating problems before they get out of hand? Taliban supports and hides Bin Ladin. We eliminate them. Saddam provides medical treatment for memebers of Al-Quiada and gives money to the families of suicide bombers and we remove him. Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map and admits they are working on the nuclear refinment process. What would be the problem with removing their government from power before they get the bomb?

Try reading some history, Mr. History Teacher. It's all there in black and white. Read the opinions of the last 30 years, of the leaders you put in office and then tell me I'm wrong again. How ignorant are you that you think these wars are so short sighted? Read anything Wolfowitz has written on the subject since 1977, read Cheney's, read Rumsfeld, hell, read Clinton on the subject of future foreign policy. Then come back and we'll talk again when you have more than a shred of an inkling that you know what you're talking about.

The fact that you are teaching our children is really starting to piss me off!

What's wrong with removing governments from power without provocation? IT"S ILLEGAL! THEY ARE SOVEREIGN! IT GOES AGAINST OUR OWN LAWS, PRINCIPLES AND INTERNATIONAL LAW! Just because we are the biggest bully in town, doesn't mean it's not wrong because there is no one to stop us. I'm not defending Iran or anyone else, I am defending the principle of sovereignty. There is no reason to believe that our own justifications won't at some point in the future be used against us. Without Sovereignty, there is no point in having borders. We have every right in the world to defend ourselves, but we have no right to judge throw the first punch. None more than I have in going to your school and yanking you out of class for being a potential danger to someone else's kids world view. Or bursting into my neighbors house and informing him that I'm taking his property because I don't like the way he maintains or uses it.

As far as lending aid to Al-qeada... Bin Laden was treated at a US hospital in the UAE just prior to 9/11, this is a matter of public record. We have given more aid to terrorist organizations and rogue states than anyone else BY FAR.

If one of the terrorists prior to 9/11 had been treated here in the US the same could be said of Bush. Bush gave medical treatment to terrorists. Was Bush standing outside the ER handing out get well cards? No, and neither was Saddam.

It's getting very tiresome hearing you schmucks, day after day, use paper thin justifications that lie in glass houses.

If you're going to argue a point, try informing yourself first... it helps to bring a little ammo to the fight.

__________________
S.O.S. ------ United We Stand, Divided We Fall

This nonsense again? Iraq. Violates 17 UN resolutions and doesn't disclose its information to us. They had proven to be a threat in the past. Remember the Gulf War? It was up to Saddam to play nice and he didn't. The Taliban, supported Osoma. What else do I have to say? Iran, we are trying to use sanctions and negotiations but if that doesn't work then we should go for it. They want Israel destroyed.

"Violates 17 UN resolutions and doesn't disclose its information to us."

>>>You still believin' that jive? FOTM is, Saddam gave the UN inspectors, the IAEA, the US and the entire world list after list of the materials he had on hand (which turned out to be next to none). Your administration just wouldn't take "no weapons" for an answer.

"So what do you propose we do? Nothing? Let terrorists and terror states roam free? What is your plan?"

>>>If you are looking for ways to stop terrorists, there are a hundred alternatives to "regime change" in countries that have little to do with terrorism. For example, look at the way Israel handled the Munich massacre. Stealth, my man, think stealth.

Can't have much stealth when the previous administration guts the agency responsible for spying abroad like a fresh hog....

Intelligence is a matter that takes years and years to decipher. You can't just send people out one day and expect them to gain the sort of knowledge we need in a matter of a few weeks.

__________________
"A committee is a group of people who individually can do nothing but together can decide that nothing can be done."
Fred Allen

"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul."
George Bernard Shaw

"Politics is the art of choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable."
John Galbraith

Nice GD Father, In order to stop terrorism I feel we need to strike at the roots rather than the surface. No leader in the U.S. or other countries has the mind or courage to do this so that is why this war is such a waste of time. I don't see this really solving anything but making things in the world even worse, If innocent people in Iraq die there could be innocent people in America dieing as well so it's a balancing act.

__________________
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government"
- Edward Abbey

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
- Winston Churchill

"Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong."
- Richard Armour