Yes we should have increased the number of troops years ago. The only things bush did wrong is fire his secratary of defence for popularity and going agensts his own words for popularity. If your right it doesent matter what others think. You do the right thing no matter what the outcome to yourself or any one elts. Thats called integraty. Liberals dont help by politisizing and exagerating this war for their own benifit. You shoult see how astonished my fellow marines are at what they see on CNN. I believe the most commonly used responce is bullshit! The only thing that liberals has accomplished in iraq is to motovate terror to keep on killing. They give a clear message to the terrorists that america is losing. this benifits the liberals by making bush unpopular at the expence of the lives of our troops. A united nation is unbeatable. We need a stubborn nation. This is impossible due to liberal greed!

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"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem." Ronald Reagan http://www.arguewitheveryone.com/war...bout-iraq.html

Would you consider the fact that many bright minded people saw how this war was going and what needed to be done early on, but were stifled by Cheney and Bush or completely ignored?
What options would these people have to enact change? Short of armed revolution, their only option was through the election process.
If those in charge had listened to the former Generals and those in the know, Iraq may have been brought under control before the insurgency became so powerful. The re-building of the infrastructure could have progressed at a more rapid pace. It might have been easier to get the Iraqis to stand up to those who wish to see democracy fail.
The window of opportunity was opened for just a short while, and many feel it has slammed shut.

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"If you don't know where you are going, you will probably wind up somewhere else."
- Laurence J. Peter

This doesent make the liberals right in politisizing this war for their own gain and being responsible for a devided nation as well as motovated terrorists. The plan of oposiong bush isnt a plan at all. They should have united under this war reguardless of party offiliation because they voted for it. There are other ways of bringing new ideas and plans to light without being responsible for aiding terror. The terrorists want the liberals in office because of their views on iraq. That sends a strong message doesent it? Reguardless of the presedents past actions we still should not be content with failure in iraq. The fact that you bring this up shows your resolve to politisize this war. I like to look foward myself not back. What do we need to do to win this war now, not what if we had done this then. Its easy to critisize the presedents plans for iraq when the liberals have no plan themselvs. They know if they arent invalved inthe desision making process then they take none of the responsibility. I say lead follow or get the hell out of the way! If your not a part of the solution then your part of the problem.

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"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem." Ronald Reagan http://www.arguewitheveryone.com/war...bout-iraq.html

I agree that the Democrats voted to give the President the power to conduct this war.
They didn’t give him Carte Blanche.
Many feel this administration has been given the opportunity, and they have failed.
Many feel we have been deceived about the progress being made in Iraq.
Quite frankly, many have lost their trust in the President, and I believe you can relate to a loss of trust. Once someone gives you cause to lose trust in them, one will never, NEVER trust that person again. It’s true in our public life, as well as our private life.
Trust is not something you can turn on and off with a switch.

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http://americanpoliticsandmore.com/forum
"If you don't know where you are going, you will probably wind up somewhere else."
- Laurence J. Peter

actually for once gray you are right. The dems did not give the president Carte blanche. THE CONSTITUTION DID WHEN THAT BILL WAS PASSED AND SIGNED By THE PRES

This is something the liberals have politisized for. with enough critisisim they have accomplished this distrust. Through exagerated reports on failure in iraq and obstructing progress in iraq they have ran agensts the presedents reputation by lowering his approval as much a possible through exagerated reports in iraq. the distrust in the presedent is nothing more but a liberal fixed campain strategy. They wanted back in office by any means nessary. Even at the expence of the popularity for this war and the lives of our troops.They motovate the enemy to fight harder and report nothing but exagerated disaster then blame it on bush that the terrorists have a huge resolve after the democrats have damn near secured them victory. This is the root of distrust for the presedent. This is what the liberals pass to the american people so ofcourse they arent going to trust bush. This isnt a resolve for victory in iraq. It is just a campain strategy.

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"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem." Ronald Reagan http://www.arguewitheveryone.com/war...bout-iraq.html

I believe the Presidents actions speak for them self. I don’t believe the failures in Iraq are false or trumped up. This administration ignored those in the know, and “stayed the course” for their own political gains. Not to win the war, but to win the White House, House of Representatives and the Senate. Ultimately, for the sole purpose of advancing their overall political agenda. That being, changing the complexion of the Supreme Court reversing laws they disagree with, enacting laws they want and gaining a foothold in the Middle East to preserve the world economy which is so dependent upon the oil located there.
This war has been politically driven from the beginning, and there is no doubt the Democrats are politicizing it as well. Such is the nature of our world, one does not obtain power in America by armed revolution, it’s done so by political means.

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"If you don't know where you are going, you will probably wind up somewhere else."
- Laurence J. Peter

What did bush do wrong in iraq? What did the democrats propose before he made these actions. The answer is nothing! If anything staying the course was in no way shape or form a political gain for the republicans! Winning the war is the presedents objective. it is the liberals who campain agensts the chances of winning without a proposal of victory. This politicaly driven war you speak of started with the support of democrats and republicans. No troops die as a result of republican support for the war. No enemy is praying to allah for the republicans to get elected to office. It is the exact opposite. The liberals are praised by the terrorists not the republicans! You say you dont think that the media in iraq is over exagerated? I know it is. I served in the capitol of the al anbar provence and i have seen nothing to the likes of what is reported in the news. Nor has my fellow marines who have served all over iraq. The liberals will not support any plan for this war and they will put all their chips in the failure section of the roulett table. They have no plan yet they critisize bushes plan. There is nothing that a liberal has done to improve the situation in iraq. However they have managed to give a sence of victory to our enemys!

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"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem." Ronald Reagan http://www.arguewitheveryone.com/war...bout-iraq.html

Had the administration altered the course early on, that would have been admitting they had made mistakes, jeopardizing their control of congress or even the 2004 election.
It seems obvious to me that following the democratic victory in 2006,they knew their chance to advance their agenda was lost, so they decided to focus on winning the war. By that time, the insurgency had become more powerful, the sectarian violence had increased and Al Sadr had fully entrenched himself as the real power in Iraq.
21,500 additional troops seems like too little, too late. Maybe 50,000 in 2004 might have allowed us to turn the corner. GWB would have never allowed that to happen, that would be admitting a mistake.
It's all a matter of perspective Smitty, our enemies see us a weak because GWB didn't want to fight this war the way it should have been fought.

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http://americanpoliticsandmore.com/forum
"If you don't know where you are going, you will probably wind up somewhere else."
- Laurence J. Peter

There you go again with the past. What we should have done is critisized by liberals who has no plan at the time of action yet they bash bush for his plans at the same time. The fact is at least bush had a plan. He doesent have the luxery of waiting untill something goes wrong before he derives his plans and actions and blames them on someone elts. the fact that things have gone bad is irrelevent because the democrats did nothing then just like they are doing nothing now to ensure victory in iraq. They love to critisize the past where they also had no plan. I dont understand this. Terror percieves the US as weak because we are devided and both the terrorists and the liberals exploit this to their benifit. the way the enemy thinks we should fight this war is to be just as ruthless as they are whch isnt an option for us Grey now is it? Winning the war has always been number one on the forghin policy list. More troops can only help things in iraq. More raids, smaller areas of operation, more overwatch, less enemy traffick, more freedom to walk the streets for the iraqis, Less violence, more show of force presence, Less ied's, more detailed serches, less wepon cashaes, more detainees, less terrorist funding, etc etc etc.... I could go on all day. Just on company can help an entire city like ramadi. Bush is sending much more than that! You would need to understand how to combat terror to understand the reason for the troop surge. thoes who critisize this surge have no clue on militery operations on urban terrain in a terror enviroment. This includes you greay! I would have loved to have had more troops in ar ramadi when i was there!

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"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem." Ronald Reagan http://www.arguewitheveryone.com/war...bout-iraq.html