I didn't want to hijack AYFR topic AM I, so I started this. Maybe it is redundent, but I haven't seen it agrued in It's own thread since I got here, so here goes.

It has been stated before that GWB and his backers had the Iraq war planned before he ever took office. The theory goes, that they wanted a footprint in the Mideast and control of Iraq oil. My thinking is that if they had a plan before 9/11 that it would have been better planned, and 9/11 would have given them the perfect opportunity to go in full force.

While it has been argued that the casualty rate would have been higher at first, I can't see that. We met with little or no resistance getting to Bagdad.

A lack of foresight or just plain ignorance of the sectarian divide within Iraq set the stage for what we witness now.
Many in this administration are on record as saying the fall of Baghdad would be a “slam dunk” and there are few who would argue that point. But the ensuing power vacuum and long oppressed sectarian differences we not considered.
If the administration had committed the recourses needed to deal with the post invasion, in my opinion, it would have taken a toll on the Republicans politically, even to the point of threatening their control of government.
They would have had to call up Reservists and Guardsmen, extended enlistments and incurred a cost that would have exceeded their predictions of 70 billion.
Had they done then what they are attempting to do now, the challenge would have been much less daunting, and there would be more people stateside backing the effort.

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"If you don't know where you are going, you will probably wind up somewhere else."
- Laurence J. Peter

"If the administration had committed the recourses needed to deal with the post invasion, in my opinion, it would have taken a toll on the Republicans politically, even to the point of threatening their control of government.
They would have had to call up Reservists and Guardsmen, extended enlistments and incurred a cost that would have exceeded their predictions of 70 billion."
This is where I am having a problem with their having a plan ahead of time. They would have been looking for the MOST opportune time to implement their plan. 9/11 gave them that opportunity. The people of the US were scared, and anyone who questioned the Presidents plans were considered unpatriotic.

If they had planned it ahead of time, IMHO, they would have gone in in 2002, while people were still very fearful. This would have given them 2 years to work out any kinks. And had they gone in 2002 with full force, then they in all likelihood, would have been riding a tide of military victory to the polls.

Instead, they waited until 2003, one short year before elections. They had to have considered that if anything went wrong, it would have meant political suicide.

Well, it’s my belief that they would have gone in after the second term began. They would have had ample to build their case and given Saddam enough rope to hang himself…so to speak.
I think 9/11 was an opportunity taken to proceed with their designs on Iraq sooner than they had planned. I just feel they were going to attack Iraq at some point during GWB’s presidency, if for any reason, to remove the bitter taste they had following Desert Storm and having to watch Saddam snub his nose in our face following our “victory” in that war. To finish the job, as it has been said.

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"If you don't know where you are going, you will probably wind up somewhere else."
- Laurence J. Peter

I will concede, that if they had a plan, it would have made sense to go in after the 2004 elections. A military win then, would have given them a sure shot at a win for 2008. But I would think, politically speaking, getting OBL would have been the most surest way to win any political war. They could have pointed at that for years to come.

If 9/11 hadn't happened, how do you think the admin. would have sold going into Iraq to the American people?

The capture of OBL would have been a slam-dunk in 08, but they capitalized on 9/11.
As far as going into Iraq…the same “evidenced they used in 02/03 would have been used only more refined and maybe even a plan for Iraq following the fall of Baghdad. It would seem there would have been more time to consider the ramifications following the removal f Saddam. As it stands, there was no plan, that’s what makes me think the invasion was rushed to capitalize on the emotions and mood of the country following 9/11. I would hope anyway, surely the intelligence of those in power exceeds the total appearance of incompetence displayed to this point.

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"If you don't know where you are going, you will probably wind up somewhere else."
- Laurence J. Peter

Sure, but I don't think that without 9/11 that they could have sold Iraq in any form. They wouldn't have had the "unpatriotic" card to play, and let's face it, Americans in general are pretty self-absorbed. They really wouldn't have given a shit about Iraq had 9/11 not happened.

No we wouldn't have cared about Iraq - we wouldn't have needed to care about them. Instead go take a look at the map of the Middle East then take what we know today. Would'nt you rather be in Iran right now?

• Iran, where democratic elections are, and have been, taking place for years now.
• Iran, where we are positioned next to Afghanistan and Iraq - the two terrorist hot beds
• Iran, where they're developing Nukes.

America backed Bush and Co. because of the WMD's more then a link to terrorism. If there was no 9-11, we'd still have heard about Irans nuclear program. Invade Iran and your strategically and tactically in a place to do some good. Instead we invaded Iraq, have a problem in Iran, found no WMD's, can't invade Iran - not enough troops and have a resurgence of the Taliban in Afghanistan.

9/11 was the catalyst to invade, but if it didn't happen not only would the world be a better place for all those that have died that day and beyond in the war on Terrorism. America would be a safer place and Bush would be seen as a great leader....or maybe he would've lost to Kerry

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Fear leads to Anger...Anger leads to Hate...Hate leads to Suffering.

You make some great points Deadshot, what better place to invade Iraq from than Iran?

__________________
"If you don't know where you are going, you will probably wind up somewhere else."
- Laurence J. Peter

__________________

Fear leads to Anger...Anger leads to Hate...Hate leads to Suffering.