Here's a plan

freedomlover · #21 (**permalink**) 01-11-2007, 12:21 PM

Thank you all for your input. Storman Norman. I see that I would still have some work to do on my plan, but I think that it is at least a start.

StormanNorman · #22 (**permalink**) 01-11-2007, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45

One of the things we did after nuking Japan was to stick around and rebuild the country. We eliminated the warlords, stablized the economy and protected them from outside influences. I think this is what our mission is in Iraq at the present. We have "won" the first battle, we have toppled Saddam, we have seen a democratic government installed, we have seen an improvement in the general lives of the population. What we need to do now is to insure those gains are not lost and occupation is the only way to do that.

One of the differences between WW2 and this one is that when it was over it was over. Iraq is just the first battle in a long and protracted war between Middle Eastern and Western civilization. If we now lose Iraq back to anti American insurgents all will have been for naught and while we may not have to fight Syria or Iran this year before the end of this decade we will.

This is not going away just because a very vocal group hates George Bush and are willing to undermine him at every step. Radical Islam is on the march and we had better do everything in our power to stop it

However, Nathan, there are significant differences between the post-WWII occupation of Japan and today's occupation of Iraq that makes the latter much more difficult.
- Japan was absolutely leveled after years and years of all out war. This significantly curtailed the will to resist an occupation.
- Japan is the most homogeneous country on Earth. They didn't have these different factions fighting for power.
- The lack of outside influences. Who was going to influence our occupation of Japan?
- Probably the biggest reason that the Japanese peacefully allowed the occupation for as long as they did was the Soviet Union. They clearly understood that it was either us or the Soviets....not a hard choice.

Deadshot · #23 (**permalink**) 01-11-2007, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45

One of the things we did after nuking Japan was to stick around and rebuild the country. We eliminated the warlords, stablized the economy and protected them from outside influences. I think this is what our mission is in Iraq at the present. We have "won" the first battle, we have toppled Saddam, we have seen a democratic government installed, we have seen an improvement in the general lives of the population. What we need to do now is to insure those gains are not lost and occupation is the only way to do that.

Have you read a History book about WW2??? Japan was broken, or the verge of starvation and a high percentage of the population expected to die in the upcoming invasion. They'd been at war for more then a decade, in fact longer, and everyone knew the end was near.

We went in with mercy and showed them we weren't the monsters they thought us to be. Iraq was at war for what, two months, how did we break those people? Japan was broken, then rebuilt. Iraq was NEVER broken.

One of the differences between WW2 and this one is that when it was over it was over. Iraq is just the first battle in a long and protracted war between Middle Eastern and Western civilization. If we now lose Iraq back to anti American insurgents all will have been for naught and while we may not have to fight Syria or Iran this year before the end of this decade we will.

As they say in math, show your work. How will we fight Iran or Syria before the end of the decade? If Iran nukes, or attempts to nuke Israel, not only will Israel wipe it off the map, we probably will too.

What's Syria going to do to us? They want Iraq, not us. If they get Iraq they'll be fighting for control with both Iran and Iraqis for Iraq. You look at a map lately? Map of Middle East Notice how Syria is near the NorthWest of Iraq, a place close to the Kurds. How are the Kurds getting along with the Shiites and Sunnis? Aren't they staying out of it, it sure seems like they are. So how is Syria going to come into Iraq to start something. If they do they're more interested in Iraq's oil and another route to the sea more then anything else.

So be serious, we're not going to fight Iraq or Syria by 2010, regardless of what happens in Iraq.

This is not going away just because a very vocal group hates George Bush and are willing to undermine him at every step. Radical Islam is on the march and we had better do everything in our power to stop it

Really?!?!? On the march, huh. Name one country, just one, where "Radical Islam" has control. Don't mention Iran, because the elections took some power base away from Ahmadinejad. Syria, Suadi Arabia and most of the countries in the Middle East are not controlled by the clerics or Radical Islam. Only the terrorist are. So name just one country, just one.

Commonsense · #24 (**permalink**) 01-11-2007, 01:36 PM

Deadshot, i agree with most of what you posted except, radical islam ison the march. It does not necessarily control governments yet, but it is getting closer to that.

Deadshot · #25 (**permalink**) 01-11-2007, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commonsense

Deadshot, i agree with most of what you posted except, radical islam ison the march. It does not necessarily control governments yet, but it is getting closer to that.

Ah, but here's the rub, when a Radical Islamic regime DID control a government, the Taliban in Afghanistan, they were quarrantined from the world and when we did attack we pushed them out of power in months, WITH THE HELP FROM THEIR OWN PEOPLE!!!!

So while you and I disagree about whether Radical Islam is on the march, I do have evidence of what happens to a country with a radical Islamic regime. It goes south fast.

TRT14 · #26 (**permalink**) 01-11-2007, 02:13 PM

I got a plan, too: Pull the hell out!

freedomlover · #27 (**permalink**) 01-11-2007, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadshot

Ah, but here's the rub, when a Radical Islamic regime DID control a government, the Taliban in Afghanistan, they were quarrantined from the world and when we did attack we pushed them out of power in months, WITH THE HELP FROM THEIR OWN PEOPLE!!!!

So while you and I disagree about whether Radical Islam is on the march, I do have evidence of what happens to a country with a radical Islamic regime. It goes south fast.

Ah, but here's the other rub. They didn't stay south for long. The taliban is again in control of most of Afghanistan. And as for the quarantine--the managed to attack us.

nathanbforrest45 · #28 (**permalink**) 01-11-2007, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRT14

I got a plan, too: Pull the hell out!

Nobody cares what your plan is, you are not there

rob · #29 (**permalink**) 01-11-2007, 03:36 PM

Freedomlover, well at least you tried to come up with a plan and I commend you for that.

I think that we are going to have go in with the additional troops and become a force to be reckoned with. For instance have the Iraqi goverment anounce a curfew. If people are out after that time without legimate reason, then they will be dealt with. Until we can control the violence we really can't add to their infrastructre. They need running water and power restosred across the country. Show the people that the insurgents are stalling the good life for the average joe and let them raise up with us.

Deadshot · #30 (**permalink**) 01-11-2007, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45

Nobody cares what your plan is, you are not there

Your not either and you seem to want you opinion heard. If we're just going to let the ones who are or were there speak then we need to shut down this forum.

My guess is 95% or better were not and are not there.

Every voice deserves to be heard.