Democrats may deny funds for Iraq surge

GoRightAndYouCan'tGoWrong · #31 (**permalink**) 01-11-2007, 11:58 AM

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Deadshot :::: But then you have no representation. I don't like everything about my party, the Dems, but I agree with this strategy and I support them over the Republicans.

If you don't like the Dems and your not happy with the Reps, who represents you? Who is there that could possibly bring your ideals and thoughts forward?

Dead I do have a party and am proud to be on the “right” side, but you have clearly missed the point on this one. Simply that at this point instead of a pissing contest between the parties we stop it and make this work for the entire nation, not a party affiliation.

I can agree that this admin hasn’t always done things the way we all see fit, but I also know that we only know what they and the media want us to know. I have to trust that he (Bush) has the best interest of this country at heart.

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Well to be honest, most of the people of the Middle East don't particularly like the way we treat women, our religion or our rights. If you were to really investigate it, I don't believe that many in the Middle East would dislike the fall of the West. But to be honest, most of us in the West wouldn't mind seeing the fall of the Middle East

Clearly they the people and government would not tolerate our presence in the region so part of your statement is false. The terrorist are the very ones that wish the total destruction of the west and/or any persons/countries that think the same. The ideology that they have a free democracy, peace and the right to think, worship, dress the way they choose is all that matters, not that they become a image of our believes and cultures.

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GIVE ME A BREAK!!!! Bush and Co. had total control, could override any Dem challenge, all we could do is bitch for the last 3+ years! They could've done whatever they please, your party failed you. Plain and simple.

No, no, no and no. If Bush had his way he would rid the region of them all…no detainments, no trials, just be done with them one by one. People do not approve of this!!!

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u really need to wake up here. If we're talking about a brigade of the VC, or Waffen SS attempting to isolate one of our brigades then we'd be fine. Instead we're talking about terrorists attacks that strike and fade back into the civilian population - who aren't supporting us. Believe it or not, GoRight, I agree with you that War should be fought without conscience until victory is assured. The problem is that these are terrorist fighting a war against us. These terrorist control a certain segment of not only the population, but the politicians. Remember we want to turn over to the Iraqis a safe, viable government - so we must work with them. They're using that against us.

So IMHO, that tells me that they're not ready to work with us to complete our goal - ergo it's time to leave. You and I just see the mission differently. BTW, how do you win hearts and minds when you have to invade a village and subject it to military occupation just to catch a few terrorists that just bombed you convoy? How'd that approach work in Vietnam?

Different war...different enemy!

I can see where you are going with this and I’m not in total disagreement. I have said all along that the people and government will have to learn to be independent and free of corruption to make this work. Again we are talking about a society that has only been bread to follow not lead. You can’t remove that mentality over night. These people are scared, if they don’t succeed they die, this is the fear they live with every day. Make no mistake about it; these terrorist aren’t going away. This will be a continuing threat to the entire globe as they have proved already.

Deadshot · #32 (**permalink**) 01-11-2007, 02:26 PM

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Originally Posted by GoRightAndYouCan'tGoWrong

Dead I do have a party and am proud to be on the “right” side, but you have clearly missed the point on this one. Simply that at this point instead of a pissing contest between the parties we stop it and make this work for the entire nation, not a party affiliation.

But in your opinion my party is completely FUBAR in it's view of the war, in my opinion your party SNAFU'd the whole war.

It's been a pissing contest since day one when I said don't go and you said go.

I can agree that this admin hasn’t always done things the way we all see fit, but I also know that we only know what they and the media want us to know. I have to trust that he (Bush) has the best interest of this country at heart.

I don't trust Bush. Again, you and I are at loggerheads here.

Clearly they the people and government would not tolerate our presence in the region so part of your statement is false. The terrorist are the very ones that wish the total destruction of the west and/or any persons/countries that think the same. The ideology that they have a free democracy, peace and the right to think, worship, dress the way they choose is all that matters, not that they become a image of our believes and cultures.

That's fine, but their culture, religion and ideals of rights - especially for women - is different for us. So what we see as democracy; that is women can do anything a man can do - ANYTHING - culturually won't fly over there; We let people drink if they want - they don't; As was shown just a few days ago, their idea of how to handle a Death Sentence and ours are vastly different. There's no one they could be like us, you acknowledge that. We agree that the terrorists want them not to have any choices. Where we don't agree is that America is helping our cause right now.

No, no, no and no. If Bush had his way he would rid the region of them all…no detainments, no trials, just be done with them one by one. People do not approve of this!!!

Is that a bad thing? Teaching them that our way is right because we follow the rule of law and that terrorists are animals that don't. I'll take the high road everytime.

Different war...different enemy!

You're right. I was responding to nathan in my response to you. Sorry. But we agree here.

I can see where you are going with this and I’m not in total disagreement. I have said all along that the people and government will have to learn to be independent and free of corruption to make this work. Again we are talking about a society that has only been bread to follow not lead. You can’t remove that mentality over night. These people are scared, if they don’t succeed they die, this is the fear they live with every day. Make no mistake about it; these terrorist aren’t going away. This will be a continuing threat to the entire globe as they have proved already.

My point exactly. The terrorists won't ever go away. There have been terrorist since the dawn of time. Our job, here in the USA, is not to make more people hate us. That's the big question I think nobody on the right wants to answer. How many people dislike or hate us now?

After 9/11 everybody loved us. In fact the invasion of Afghanistan was applauded by most of the world for two reasons. Most of the people felt it was our right to seek justice and the Taliban had no nation which would ally itself the Radical Islamic Taliban. The terrorists had no power and were on the run with almost no safe haven.

But after Iraq, Iran grew a pair and so did North Korea. Iran and NKorea always hated us, but were afraid to openly confront us. Think about how the world would be different if we hadn't invaded Iraq and Iran said they were going to get nukes. Bush could threaten invasion and have that threat mean something. Given what we know now, wouldn't you rather be knee deep in Iran, which borders our other conquest Afghanistan and are greatest ally in the region Pakistan? A place where they already have voting and is dominated by over 80% of one religion instead of the division that Iraq has?

Face it we made a mistake, and we're trying to make the best of it. But in the end, Bush's legacy will not be a good one and Iraq will be shown to not have helped out our War on Terror much.

George O Well · #33 (**permalink**) 01-11-2007, 04:54 PM

"What kind of war do you think it would be permissible to win?"

>>>A war like Grenada. We may not derive all that much satisfaction out of a war like Grenada, by god, we WON. And I know I walked around with a woodie for two weeks.

gixaholic · #34 (**permalink**) 01-11-2007, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadshot

My point exactly. The terrorists won't ever go away. There have been terrorist since the dawn of time. Our job, here in the USA, is not to make more people hate us. That's the big question I think nobody on the right wants to answer. How many people dislike or hate us now?

After 9/11 everybody loved us. In fact the invasion of Afghanistan was applauded by most of the world for two reasons. Most of the people felt it was our right to seek justice and the Taliban had no nation which would ally itself the Radical Islamic Taliban. The terrorists had no power and were on the run with almost no safe haven.

But after Iraq, Iran grew a pair and so did North Korea. Iran and NKorea always hated us, but were afraid to openly confront us. Think about how the world would be different if we hadn't invaded Iraq and Iran said they were going to get nukes. Bush could threaten invasion and have that threat mean something. Given what we know now, wouldn't you rather be knee deep in Iran, which borders our other conquest Afghanistan and are greatest ally in the region Pakistan? A place where they already have voting and is dominated by over 80% of one religion instead of the division that Iraq has?

Face it we made a mistake, and we're trying to make the best of it. But in the end, Bush's legacy will not be a good one and Iraq will be shown to not have helped out our War on Terror much.

so you are saying it is a popularity constest......................hmmmmmm so what can we do to make the world love us.......

gixaholic · #35 (**permalink**) 01-11-2007, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George O Well

"What kind of war do you think it would be permissible to win?"

>>>A war like Grenada. We may not derive all that much satisfaction out of a war like Grenada, by god, we WON. And I know I walked around with a woodie for two weeks.

haha you call a deplyment a war........... no wonder you are against the iraq war

Kix · #36 (**permalink**) 01-11-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadshot

My point exactly. The terrorists won't ever go away. There have been terrorist since the dawn of time. Our job, here in the USA, is not to make more people hate us. That's the big question I think nobody on the right wants to answer. How many people dislike or hate us now?

After 9/11 everybody loved us. In fact the invasion of Afghanistan was applauded by most of the world for two reasons. Most of the people felt it was our right to seek justice and the Taliban had no nation which would ally itself the Radical Islamic Taliban. The terrorists had no power and were on the run with almost no safe haven.

But after Iraq, Iran grew a pair and so did North Korea. Iran and NKorea always hated us, but were afraid to openly confront us. Think about how the world would be different if we hadn't invaded Iraq and Iran said they were going to get nukes. Bush could threaten invasion and have that threat mean something. Given what we know now, wouldn't you rather be knee deep in Iran, which borders our other conquest Afghanistan and are greatest ally in the region Pakistan? A place where they already have voting and is dominated by over 80% of one religion instead of the division that Iraq has?

Face it we made a mistake, and we're trying to make the best of it. But in the end, Bush's legacy will not be a good one and Iraq will be shown to not have helped out our War on Terror much.

Just based on these exerpts taken from your post (not digging for the parts you couldn't post correctly) it sounds to me like you liked it better when we were the ones getting attacked, because the world loved us.

I personally don't care to be loved that much and I could care less who gets all hot and bothered over us going after terrorists and the governments that support them.

Still Dizzy · #37 (**permalink**) 01-11-2007, 06:13 PM

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Originally Posted by George O Well

>>>A war like Grenada. We may not derive all that much satisfaction out of a war like Grenada, by god, we WON. And I know I walked around with a woodie for two weeks.

Vicarious bravery do that to you? No surprise there.

George O Well · #38 (**permalink**) 01-12-2007, 11:29 AM

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Originally Posted by Still Dizzy

Vicarious bravery do that to you? No surprise there.

Oh yeah, I start stinking of testosterone when people talk about "task forces", "invasions", "penetrations", "shock 'n awe", "napalm in the morning", "casualties", etc. It's all such a beautiful thing.

Kix · #39 (**permalink**) 01-12-2007, 11:48 AM

I believe I mentioned before the election that "cut (funding) and run (the media)" would be the tactic used by the Dems to end the war they never wanted to win. They had their bill all prepared before they ever gained control of the house.

Spitty · #40 (**permalink**) 01-12-2007, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George O Well

Oh yeah, I start stinking of testosterone when people talk about "task forces", "invasions", "penetrations", "shock 'n awe", "napalm in the morning", "casualties", etc. It's all such a beautiful thing.

How about Operation Just Cause or "Operation Just Cus" "Bush I is going to slaughter thousands of Panamanians "Just Cus we are warming up for Gulf I"

What ever happened to Noriega, I wish some one could have taken his deposition, wonder what he knew about Bush I. I bet Bush I had at least 148 civilians killed and mass graves in Panama would corroborate such a claim. HMMMMM???, HMMMMM?