The first move to get out of the quagmire is to stop the "the world will come to an end" rhetoric about "disastrous consequences". The Administration can talk about what a wonderful job they did getting rid of Saddam and helping the Iraqi's get going. They can spend 6-12months talking about what a great thing they have done over and over again until a plurality of the American public believes it. The western journalists would leave Iraq the minute the Green zone was given back to the Iraqis and you would have no more "American soldiers Killed" headlines. I am ashamed to say that I was a skeptic who was convinced by the Bush Administrations nightly war drumbeat. (With tongue in cheek) If Bush were required to go on patrols in Iraq or stop the war in Iraq what do you think his perception of what is good for this country would be? LOL. A much better way to fight the war on terror if our government had the will would be to stop funding the middle eastern nations through oil revenues. Renewable energy and conservation legislation is the answer to our immediate security problems. This would cost less and we wouldn't be developing a whole new generation of disabled veterans.

Good Thread, Chief - I think the first thing I would have done if I were in Bush's shoes would have been to listen to the old man:

"Now, some who were faint-hearted and stood in the way of crushing Saddam's aggression now have the gall to say, ``You stopped the war too soon.'' Some also say that General Norman Schwarzkopf wanted to march into Baghdad and ``get'' Saddam. False! I'll never forget -- this is a true story and history has it recorded on film -- sitting in the Oval Office on February 27, 1991, our troops having performed so magnificently in the field. And with me in the room was General Scowcroft and the Secretary of Defense, Dick Cheney, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Colin Powell. They recommended to me, as President who has the responsibility for this, that we stop the slaughter; our mission was accomplished. I asked, are you sure that our field commanders feel this way? They both said yes. But to double-check, Colin Powell got up from the couch in our office -- you all have seen pictures of it -- walked over to the desk that you see pictures of, reached into the front right-hand corner of the desk, and there was a secure telephone; picked up that secure phone and got General Schwarzkopf on the line in my presence. And General Powell looked up at me after he had talked to Schwarzkopf, and he said, ``Mission accomplished. Stop the killing.''

And it was right. We are not in the slaughter business. We were in the business of crushing aggression. And we did it. And I don't like this historical revision. We did the right thing; we did the compassionate thing in the end as well. If we'd continued, hundreds of thousands of American troops would be on the ground in Iraq today attempting to pull warring factions together or bogged down in some guerrilla warfare. [Emphasis Added] Whether in Korea or in Lebanon, history shows us the danger of losing sight of our objectives. Liberators can easily become occupiers. A Commander in Chief has to know not only when his objectives have been reached but when to consolidate his gains."
--- President George H. W. Bush, Excerpted from his remarks to the American Legion National Convention in Chicago, Illinois, August 25, 1992

How's that for "Father Knows Best"?

Chief in 20 or 30 years no one will care about the mideast because the oil supply will be dwindling there. Do you notice we do not care about N.Koreas people,(they are starving and under a horrible dictator or Burma,(they have defied the UN repeatedly and have terrible human rights abuses(I was there two years ago) or 7 countries in Africa under a dictatorship. They have nothing...they have no resources. Do you think we suddenly care specifically about Iraq because Bush feels sad about the Iraqi people. There are 27 countries under much worse dictators and threats of death. Iraq has oil and that is why Bush cares!!!! They were not a threat to us any more than cuba .There are filmclips of Rupert Murdoch who controls most of our media stating that we should invade iraq because the barrel of oil would go down to 20$ a barrel. We invaded a country because bush though he could lie and get the war over with in 2 months and he would be a hero and now he has caused such worldwide threats and debt,death and destruction that it will take years to begin a recovery.

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BLIND FAITH IN BAD LEADERSHIP IS NOT PATRIOTISM

EXCELLENT POST cordelier....

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BLIND FAITH IN BAD LEADERSHIP IS NOT PATRIOTISM

Exactly this war shouldn't of even started. It has almost reached $275 billion$ for what reasoning???

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To all;
I too, appreciate that we are expressing positions better.
Ididnot-;
This forum is ( like many others on the web;
as well as over backfences etc)a minirepresentation of the conversations
we, A FREE-SPEAKING society, should and MUST have.
Our elected ( and sad-to-say, unelected bureaucrats) leaders are not
our cosensus( poll) oriented puppets; nor should we be lazy carpers..
We are free, because we can persuade ..
Which brings me to some of the broken records we have here.
.. Why just the last post, after all our remarks,
he still can't acknowledge that there ARE other perspectives.
.. The context shift from international-conspiracy theories to
domestic social endeavors is breathtaking..
But not unfamiliar.
The perspectives, feelings, and hypocritical mock-outrage is echoed,
taught, and encouraged by some very familiar names.
Names and people and organizations who have
histories and connections with decidedly activist ( at best ) to anti-american weakening..
Names Like Noam Chomskylook in wikipedia
Saul Alinsky..{ A social activist academic of the
vicious power-seeking mold. Sen Hillarys Mentor.. FACT!!!!!!}
Syd Hirsh ( a repeat offender in the agitprop war, he writes often to
wreck US actions ) ( Note it was HIS hysterical accusations
re Abu Ghraib
that the leftist media quote..
there have been NO cooroborations of his torture claims..
NO coverup by the US and comparatively,
the US IS more humane than all other mil prisons...)
In Fact, since the REAL struggle is over the dregs of desperate collectivists..
We need to keep ferreting out the maleducators who confuse our youth, and our citizens.
Here is a lie we can combat:
The only way to solve America's problemswhatever the particular
offense isis: to get out of foreign countries
NOT Haiti, Bosnia, Germany,S Korea, Colombia, England, Japan etc
ONLY in the Mid East;
To jettison ONLY Israel S Korea and Taiwan, eventually,
but maintain ever restrictive treaties everywhere else;
and thereby allow the gov't to more rigorously
control crime, education, the economy, AND the
social multi-culturalism required by some bureaucrats ( i.e. sen Ted Kennedy)
.. That is to say.. Tax every American who makes "too much" money, to pay for everyone who feels they have the short end..
For whatever reason.
Now THAT is a lying supposition.
That socialist programs work.
But to say that there are NOT dangers from the desperate
and criminal factions of the recalcitrant Islamic civilization..
Why, that would be a lie, too.
ANd to want a leader;.. An American President ( of ANY political stripe or faction ) to be that kind of weak, appeasing, cowardly pacifist
in the face of REAL DEATH, and evil..
well, either you are reacting with emotional desire for tranquility
( and the ostrich-like "can't we all get along" mentality )
OR
you are giving in to the mock-indignance of some VERY skillful enemies.
That is to say, our academia, who, themselves have been miseducated..
see..John Dewey and progressive education for an eye-opener.
MTC

Wow, and I thought I was wordy. When someone deciphers PW's post let me know what it is that he would do now.

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S.O.S. ------ United We Stand, Divided We Fall

ooh.. I got carried away..

"It is easy to criticize an action taken when no alternative is offered."

>>>Quit with the no-alternative-offered bull. The alternative would have been to NOT invade Iraq.

^False dichotomy.

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PROUDLY REVILED BY THE LOONY LEFT SINCE 1999!!!!

"I done told you once you son a bitch I am the best that has ever been."

you liberals make me sick to my stomach.