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Originally Posted by moderateJim
1. We are in debt half a billion bad
2.Iraqi women get to vote good
3.We look like fools because Bush tied it to wmd's and 9/11 very bad
4. Haliburton has now made over 45 billion off this war...good for some
5.We created terrorists faster than we can shoot them bad
6. Saddam is gone good for his enemies.....the Kurds the sunnis Iran
7. Daily living is worse for the average Iraqi citizen no electricity....contaminated water....more violence probably no one really cares about this one
8. Bush will get to go down in history as a war president good for him
9.We took our eye off real threats like Iran and N.Korea....that sucks for us
10. Military recruitment is down......Well they wont have to look at a draft til Bush is gone so he can duck out of that even though he will be thre reason...........sucks big for the 11-14 year olds when they register in a few years
11. Bush got to jump up and down on an aircraft carrier with a leather strap between his legs shouting mission accomplished.....good for him
12. It took the focus off Osama bin laden....that is good for osama also the bullshit from Bush probably helped osama's cause so I guess that is good for Osama
13. Cable news grew with everyone watching the war stories....good for the networks
14.2435 soldiers dead....really bad for their fAMILIES
15. 17655 SOLDIERS WITH LOST LIMBS OR MAIMED...BAD FOR THEM
16. DO YOU THINK WE ARE SAFER...YOU DECIDE i DO NOT THINK SO
17.tHERE ARE A FEW POSITIVES BUT HAVE THEY JUSTIFIED THE COSTS
18. Have we solved anything in the middle east and brought about peace and leadership?
19. Do you think torturing prisoners at the same prison Saddam did was good or bad for this country. do you think that helped bring the middle east to a democratic state. Do you think this made us look like holu to the world and justified our main reason for invading was that Saddam was bad
20. At Bush's last state of the zunion address he was asked about his plan for iraq and Bush resoponded"That is for the next president to decide" Does this meanhe is going to Crawford for 2 and half years while we mount deaths and debt and wait for the next president to takeover
21. Someone on this thread posted a question about 2008 presidential election....who the hell would want that job and try to follow after Bush and fix this mess I think they must be crazy...right or left i do not see how they can be successful with the debt and destruction. they will inherit a pandoras box of Bushisms that will rear there ugly heads daily
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Let's try a different perspective.
Let's see which one is more ..
Objective ( that is, "moderate")..
1- We are in debt for greater amounts, but more to the point
this is the cost of being the leader and authority of International stability.
2.- Yes, western political tenets are being introduced to the new democracies of Afganistan and Iraq ..
A dividend to the expenditures of #1.
3- America looks weak for many mistakes made in the past..
But the virulence ( as well as similarity to enemy ) of domestic propaganda
is focused on deposing the present US administration
AND US presence.
4-Halliburton ( or you could as easily said the Carlyle group or Exxon, or Chase Manhattan )made a profit? Well, they are publicly held companies, that have made US actions possible for over SEVENTY YEARS.
you might as well be attacking the whole economic structure of the American civilization.
( which our enemies DO, and you still sound just like them.)
5-One might say that ANY policy that challenges the status quo
will foment a radical and militant reaction..
A civilization that accepts THIS level of reaction just might be
in need of some rehabilitation.
6- Saadam was a barely controllable element in a region facing a growing radical explosion.( we all saw this back in 1975, when the ayatollah was still pumping out propaganda from France. The West needed to set an example.
7- Yep, there are a lot of "tactical" and strategic miscalculations,
not merely expecting a natural relief from
Baathist regime tactics.. ( see: REAL police-state regimes.)
8- Pres Bush will be analysed by very partisan media demagogues
who will continue to insinuate pacifist ( read: demoralizing )propaganda.
However, most historians will come to more balanced evaluations.
9- The US has been a multi-tasking leader of the free world since your
grandparents were kids.. Agreed, Threats from the Soviet influenced
SHOULD be taken care of..
care to make some suggestions? ( other than cash and withdrawal?)
10-Draft is the subject? It was Rangel ( a Korean War draftee) who
broached the subject as an absolute NEED.
... It has been democrat policy since McGovern ( '72) to reduce and
emasculate the US Military forces. ( Curiously similar to the agenda of our
Cold War enemy ) Examples are numerous,but
Pres Clinton reduced our standing forces to a mere 400 ship Navy
and less than 11 divisions.
US policy ONCE required the capability
to fight TWO major wars; like Soviet invasion of Europe
AND a Middle Eastern attack,
as well as three regional conflicts;
like Taiwan face-offs and Caribbean/Mediterranean incursions.
11- Petty complaints about press ops should not be launched
when one's own faction is BUILT on opportunistic propaganda.
12- It would be unwise to think that merely one man or organization
were the ONLY source of danger.. However I DO agree that
early warnings and opportunitiesSHOULD have been heeded.
13- Confusing sarcasm,
The BigMedia networks have DEFINITELY
been stripped of their exclusivilty ( read: control of public opinion )..
and undoubtedly the Internet has been the riskiest cause.
Fox News is
notin their club, but then neither is Gore's Lib channel.
14- The awful sacrifices our citizens..
Our brothers and sisters, sons and daughters,
mothers and fathers have made for Ideals and for America,
and in respect of our National Interests are a terrible cost
The Respect for our warriors, our legionnaires,
their victories and defeats are not a tote board for your politics.
15- same as above .. rather heartless of you, eh?
16- Safety is kind of vague, any reason why you choose to be this way?
Do you mean from germs, or from intense destabilizations of our
society..like people,food, and energy distribution attacks?
Yes, I think we have a more robust system.
Yeah, I want more attention to details..Any suggestions?
17- Do any investment involve cost? Do risks and free-will involve loss
and consequence? Does mature and adult analysis involve more
than shallow emotional complaints?
18- Have we been allowed ANY policies full rein? No and in fact,
no "policy" or action is isolated.
Gee, I wish things were simpler, don't you?
19- I know that the conduct of all US military facilities,
even when involving civilian participation is conducted at
a PC level of notation, bureaucracy, and regulation that a
non-mil person would not believe. Notice that the critics of the prison
conduct have NEVER gone to these places.
Notice that Seymour Hirsh et al have made hysterical charges of
US misconduct and atrocities,
and those have a similarity to propaganda charges from soviet-trained
revolutionaries for over fifty years.
20- This and in fact ALL of the US Policies have been articulated in his
first speeches. The reasons for Iraq INCLUDED the UN resolutions,
as well as Baathist intent to use BC weapons.
The aiding and abetting of anti-american cells is also DOCUMENTED
( see Achille Lauro terrorists)
He recognized that the threat from "terrorism", that is:
radical militant actions is a deeper problem than one
administration could possibly handle. Do You realize that?
21- This was just a venting of yor spleen.. bushism.. The examinations
a public figure endures at the lens of the Media is a very daunting one. So is the clear history of dirty politics that runs our nation.
Perhaps a citizen who is principled CAN rise to be our leader,
But faction politicking in a mixed-economy make NO hands clean.
Did this help ?
MTC
What have we accomplished in iraq?
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