 |

11-02-2006, 02:43 PM
|
|
Political Guru
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 538
|
|
iraq the war that can't be won
what is it that we are trying to win,and at what cost is it with it,to truly understand why there is so much violence in iraq,one needs to go and research the history,the religeon,the customs of iraq.iraq has been a country of certain customs that have been in place since the beginning of time,when we invaded illegally,we did not treat the sacred areas of iraq with respect,instead we simply destroyed these holy areas,also iraq's believe that when you enter a home you are to remove your shoes,also their believe is that if a woman is raped that she is no longer clean and deemed as a disgrace,there are many more issues,but the bottom line is that we have bullied,and disrespected iraq's customs,you can not impose,rather force democrocy onto people who for generations have lived and abided by these customs.it just won't work.ask yourself this,if you were to wake up and find us under sieged by a former country,and them forcing you to change you living habits to something you were not a custom to,breaking down your front door and thrown into the street for no reason,having your daily life turned to a constant hell,how would you react,iraq is reacting to being illegally invaded,by us and they are trying to protect what is theirs.
|

11-03-2006, 11:15 PM
|
|
Seasoned Veteran
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: I'm an Okie, but not from Muskogee
Posts: 63
|
|
Archeologists and art historians who specialize in Iraq's ancient history are concerned that the country's vast collection of ancient monuments and artifacts is at risk of being destroyed or pillaged and sold on the international black market.
Often referred to as the "cradle of civilization," Iraq houses some of the world's greatest archeological treasures, with remnants of the ancient Mesopotamian cities of Babylon, Ur, and Nineveh. However, since the fall of the Hussein regime, UNESCO and archeologists have urged the international community to take steps to safeguard Iraq's cultural heritage.
Scholars have indicated that the state of Iraq's archeological and cultural treasures is grim. Immediately following the collapse of the former Iraqi regime and the subsequent breakdown of law and order, the Iraqi National Museum in Baghdad was looted. The museum's staff indicated that almost 14,000 pieces were stolen and only about 5,400 have so far been recovered, many from the black market in the United States, Italy, England, and Switzerland, "All Headline News" reported on September 16.
Furthermore, several religiously significant and historically important Islamic shrines and mosque have also been damaged or destroyed. In April 2005, the famous spiraling Malwiya minaret of the Great Mosque of Samarra were badly damaged by insurgents when they used it to attack coalition forces. In February 2006, the Al-Askari mosque in Samarra, one of the most revered Shi'ite shrines, was destroyed, setting off a wave of sectarian violence.
Dr. McGuire Gibson, an expert in Mesopotamian archaeology at the University of Chicago, told "The Washington Post" on September 13 that the condition of many of Iraq's antiquities was horrible and looting continues. The looting "hasn't stopped," he said. "There has been the looting of sites on an industrial scale. Some of the greatest Sumerian sites have gone."
Ministry Sets Own Agenda
A different type of threat to Iraq's cultural heritage has emerged since the Shi'ite-dominated government took power in December. The strong showing by radical Shi'ite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr enabled his movement to gain control of four ministries in the al-Maliki-led administration, including the Ministry of Tourism and Antiquities.
Traditionally, the State Board of Antiquities and Heritage, which oversees Iraq's archeological and cultural heritage sites, was under the control of the Culture Ministry, but it now falls under the jurisdiction of the Tourism Ministry. Liwa Sumaysim -- a dentist by trade and whose wife, a member of parliament, is a relative of al-Sadr -- was appointed to head the ministry.
Shortly thereafter, many of the most highly regarded Iraqi archeologists and scholars at the State Board of Antiquities and Heritage were either forced to retire or were fired and replaced with religious fundamentalists, London's "The Times" reported on September 15.
Burhan Shakur, an archeologist and director of excavations at the Iraqi National Museum, was fired and later given the option to retire. The inspector for antiquities in Dhi Qar Governorate, Abd al-Amir Hamdan, was arrested in April on corruption charges, imprisoned for three months, released, and charges were later dropped. His successor was a man with affiliations to the Islamic Virtue Party (Al-Fadilah), which has close ties to al-Sadr's movement, "The New York Times" reported on September 12.
Former employees at the board have voiced concern that the ministry has removed the most qualified individuals who have the expertise to maintain and care for the priceless and often delicate antiquities. Dr. Donny George, the former president of the State Board of Antiquities and Heritage and a prominent Iraqi archeologist, expressed frustration with the ministry. "I can no longer work with these people who have come in with the new ministry," "The Times" quoted him as saying on September 15. "They have no knowledge of archaeology, no knowledge of antiquities, nothing." He also accused the ministry of cutting ties with museums and cultural institutions around the world, which would severely curtail its ability to care for archeological sites.
George, a Christian, told Britain's Channel 4 television in an interview on September 13 that his family received a letter accusing his son of blaspheming Islam and harassing Muslim girls. The note, accompanied with a bullet, demanded that the family pay a fine of $1,000. That incident and the subsequent rumors that he would be fired as president of the board because he was a Christian, prompted George to flee with his family to Damascus.
Pre-Islamic Treasures Threatened
In addition, there is growing speculation that the ministry is only focusing on protecting Islamic sites and artifacts and turning a blind eye to pre-Islamic ones. Looting in the southern Dhi Qar Governorate, an area rich in pre-Islamic sites, has been increasing. Two pre-Islamic statues were recently returned to the National Museum with a note attached to them referring to the pieces as "idols."
In 2004, the Al-Nasiriyah Museum, which contained a huge collection of Sumerian, Assyrian, Babylonian, and Abbasid artifacts, was burned and looted. Guards at the museum reportedly heard militants say they would do to the antiquities "what the Taliban did", the "International Herald Tribune" reported on September 12 -- an apparent reference to the Taliban's 2001 destruction of the Bamyan Buddha statues in Afghanistan on the grounds they were idolatrous.
Elizabeth Stone, an anthropologist at Stony Brook University in New York who has conducted numerous excavations in southern Iraq, accused the ministry of not doing enough to protect pre-Islamic sites. "What is striking is that the Islamic parts are left alone, whereas the immediate pre-Islamic sites are not", she said. She also said she heard rumors that Islamic militants were looting artifacts and selling them to fund their activities.
The continuing destruction of Iraq's archeological sites and artifacts may have a drastic impact on Iraq's future. Not only will a rich cultural legacy be lost for future generations of Iraqis, but Iraq's remaining antiquities, if protected and maintained, could serve as a centerpiece for a thriving tourist industry. As the University of Chicago's McGuire Gibson noted in the "International Herald Tribune" on September 12, "Antiquities are key to Iraq's economy; at some point the oil will run out. Iraqi tourism will be built on archaeology."
|

11-03-2006, 11:36 PM
|
|
Seasoned Veteran
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: I'm an Okie, but not from Muskogee
Posts: 63
|
|
"The War On Terrorism", "The War On Drugs" - We can't win these wars with military force because we are not willing to use the military might needed to win these wars. We can't win these wars with diplomacy because diplomacy will not give the terrorists and drug dealers what they want - money and power. In other words, we are up against insurmountable odds - and I see no way that we can win unless we give up our "moral and ethical standards of warfare" and I don't see that happening any time soon although I think eventually it will happen. The only thing that will stop it is if Europe decides to fully support us in our efforts. As long as it is financially beneficial for them not to, they won't. I think what happens with the "War on Terrorism" depends more on what Europe does than what we do, just as the resolution of the North Korean problem rests more with China than with us.
|

11-04-2006, 01:11 AM
|
|
Machiavelli Incarnate
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,099
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lydowe
The only thing that will stop it is if Europe decides to fully support us in our efforts. As long as it is financially beneficial for them not to, they won't. I think what happens with the "War on Terrorism" depends more on what Europe does than what we do, just as the resolution of the North Korean problem rests more with China than with us.
|
If the US was to completely pull out of the war on terror tomorrow, the terrorists would not stop. In my opinion they would be taking the fight to the Europeans. They have been reinforced to believe that their terrorist activities or their threats of violence have been effective against some European nations already. This is a war against the west, not just the US. The US and the British to some extent are really the only ones who are taking up the fight right now to any real degree. Europe has been attacked and they seem content to watch from the sidelines for now. With tensions in Germany (Turks), France (Algerians and others), as well as other European nations including Britain I am not sure when it will happen, but I think something will happen to get a European response one way or another which will cause the Europeans to deal with the problem of radical Islam.
|

11-04-2006, 01:14 AM
|
|
Seasoned Veteran
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 62
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCF24
what is it that we are trying to win,and at what cost is it with it,to truly understand why there is so much violence in iraq,one needs to go and research the history,the religeon,the customs of iraq.iraq has been a country of certain customs that have been in place since the beginning of time,when we invaded illegally,we did not treat the sacred areas of iraq with respect,instead we simply destroyed these holy areas,also iraq's believe that when you enter a home you are to remove your shoes,also their believe is that if a woman is raped that she is no longer clean and deemed as a disgrace,there are many more issues,but the bottom line is that we have bullied,and disrespected iraq's customs,you can not impose,rather force democrocy onto people who for generations have lived and abided by these customs.it just won't work.ask yourself this,if you were to wake up and find us under sieged by a former country,and them forcing you to change you living habits to something you were not a custom to,breaking down your front door and thrown into the street for no reason,having your daily life turned to a constant hell,how would you react,iraq is reacting to being illegally invaded,by us and they are trying to protect what is theirs.
|
what is going on now in iraq is not because of the american forces,its because of Iran and its followers in iraq!iran is the the source of all evils in the region!
|
| Thread Tools |
|
|
| Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|