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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2008, 02:57 PM
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Strategic intrest in teh ME...there is none. ITs pointless to have troops in any foriegn nation any longer The Cold war is over and deployment of troops from the US is getting easier and easier with technology.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2008, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by StormanNorman View Post
In what ways? And how was Iraq responsible for it? I was in the Middle East in 1999 and 2000.....and Iraq was not the center of their concerns.... actually, Iran was a far bigger concern.

Saddam was not an ideal situation....no doubt. And, if by a snap of the fingers, we could rid the world of him and replace him with a far more amenable leader/government, then by all means. Of course, it doesn't work that way....and the key question comes down to this...are the benefits worth the costs. And I'm still not sure exactly how much benefit, if any, we are going to get out of this thing. But, I do know that it has cost us a lot.

Animosity. There are many people there who are very distrustful of the West and its intentions. And I always felt that a major American presence in the heart of the Middle East would only exacerbate those feelings....which in itself can lead to big problems down the road.

Sure....you always need to look at the strategic picture first. And I can tell you, TakuanSoho, even the Bush Administration is getting away from the idea of a visible American presence in many countries of concern.
The sanctions on Iraq severely hurt the economies of Turkey and Jordan. Iraq had attacked two of its neighbors. The lawlessness of the region was problematic. It created a divide among the Sunnis. It gave a cause celeibre for the Iranian Shi'tes (at the expense of the Arab Shi'ites). Saddam had destroyed the local ecosphere by draining the marshes to get at the Shi'ites.
It prevented the US from focusing on Iran because we had to contain Iraq. It prevented us from getting Saudi Arabia to address Al Qaeda because we needed them and they couldn't afford the internal strife. And sanctions were failing, with both France and Russia actively violating them.

Iraq, as I said was a boil that needed to be lanced. Once lanced we discovered that things were actually worse. Pakistan was helping several nations get nuclear weapons, this evidence helped to force Libya into confessing to a much more developed program. Saudi Arabia finally broke with Al Qaeda, depriving them of funds (and Al Qaeda responded by attacking Saudi Arabia, a good thing). We were able to move our forces out of Saudi Arabia (and out of the holy lands), which reduced Islamic hatred (they don't like us in Iraq, they hated us in Saudi Arabia).

Neither choice was a good one, but pretending that doing nothing would have led to things improving is bull. The entire 1990's was proof of that.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2008, 03:07 PM
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So when it was convient to Blame Iran they were balejd for the war now its convient to blame Iraq ro recived lots of US support and were fighting true islamic extremists....LOL.

The US was stonle cold busted vioalting these sancations. IF Fracne and russia were ciolating them Were was the T-72's and AMX tanks????? The Americans said they had 3000 MTS in 2003 and less then 30 were ever actviley encountered. There was nothing to do. They were a a imputan amry stilll totaly shattered from the 91 war. With the American Air Force over there nation and the American Army sitting close the Borders and the American Navy just off there own waters. They had one big ass gun pointed and them and if they flinched one bit they would get plugged. They were never a threat to any nation. Quickly s thrusting into Kuwait with minimial US precesnce ina bludered Diplomatic issue is hardly a real threat. Its Bull to paint tese pissant third world toilet as some rising world power.
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Everything you just said is total bullshit

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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 06-14-2008, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by StormanNorman View Post
Hi PI,

One of the main selling points of this war was the implied connection between Saddam and Al Qaeda. It was implied over and over again. And that is why Americans supported this bad idea of a war in 2003....out of fear based on recent memories of 9/11. Yes, Saddam's people had been involved in terrorism in the past e.g., Palestine, etc. But, that was not what drove the train here, PI, was it? Two words, PI....."Al Qaeda." Here is a link to the 2006 Senate Intel Report....start on Page 105:
http://intelligence.senate.gov/phaseiiaccuracy.pdf

As it turns out, the Saddam/Al Qaeda connection was primarily a bunch of fear mongering on the part of the Bush Administration who used this alleged connection to drive fear into an already scared nation.....just to get their war. Oh, and by the way, Iraq was NO THREAT to the United States.....anyone who believes that is probably scared of their own shadow.
ACTUALLY... As it turns out the Hussein / International Terrorism connection is extensive and indisputable; with international terrorism being the entity which attacked the US on 9-11. Now that sets Hussein, the overt promoter of international terrorism, COMPLICIT in 9-11. There was nothing stated by this administration which exagerated the relationship between Hussein and international Islamic terrorism...

What yoy're doign here is nothing more or less than providing the benfit of the doubt that Iraq was not more directly involved to HUSSEIN.

Now I see this point of view is wholly irrelevant, as Hussein is dead, Iraq is a free, self governing republi, with the al Qaeda operations in Iraq (WHICH EXISTED IN IRAQ PRIOR TO THE US LIBERATION OF IRAQ) having been reduced to tenuous little operations which are presently killing themselves to get an IED planted...


So while you're entitled to your misguided opinion, that opinion is, asstated above, irrelevant and only serves purely as disinformation.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 06-14-2008, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Publius Infinitum View Post
ACTUALLY... As it turns out the Hussein / International Terrorism connection is extensive and indisputable; with international terrorism being the entity which attacked the US on 9-11. Now that sets Hussein, the overt promoter of international terrorism, COMPLICIT in 9-11. There was nothing stated by this administration which exagerated the relationship between Hussein and international Islamic terrorism...

What yoy're doign here is nothing more or less than providing the benfit of the doubt that Iraq was not more directly involved to HUSSEIN.

Now I see this point of view is wholly irrelevant, as Hussein is dead, Iraq is a free, self governing republi, with the al Qaeda operations in Iraq (WHICH EXISTED IN IRAQ PRIOR TO THE US LIBERATION OF IRAQ) having been reduced to tenuous little operations which are presently killing themselves to get an IED planted...


So while you're entitled to your misguided opinion, that opinion is, asstated above, irrelevant and only serves purely as disinformation.
You fools are sick.

Ya'll just make it up as you go to feed yer fascist fantasies.


Wank Harder, Republicant losers!
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 06-14-2008, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Publius Infinitum View Post
ACTUALLY... As it turns out the Hussein / International Terrorism connection is extensive and indisputable; with international terrorism being the entity which attacked the US on 9-11. Now that sets Hussein, the overt promoter of international terrorism, COMPLICIT in 9-11. There was nothing stated by this administration which exagerated the relationship between Hussein and international Islamic terrorism...

What yoy're doign here is nothing more or less than providing the benfit of the doubt that Iraq was not more directly involved to HUSSEIN.

Now I see this point of view is wholly irrelevant, as Hussein is dead, Iraq is a free, self governing republi, with the al Qaeda operations in Iraq (WHICH EXISTED IN IRAQ PRIOR TO THE US LIBERATION OF IRAQ) having been reduced to tenuous little operations which are presently killing themselves to get an IED planted...

So while you're entitled to your misguided opinion, that opinion is, asstated above, irrelevant and only serves purely as disinformation.
Dontcha just love how it completely ignores the posts it gets slammed back into the box on, then just continues spouting his ignorant distortions as if it never happened?

It'd be cute if it weren't seen so often on the right.

Last edited by Back Atcha; 06-14-2008 at 02:38 PM.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 06-14-2008, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by noneof yourbusiness View Post
CLiontn was oooooo soo wrong when he did it. Now he was right? HArdly. Asprin Factory......


NBC weapons mean fuck all when all you got to launch em is a Rubber band. There was no contact. between them thats all beeen proven false years ago.
ROFLMNAO...

This position is the result of irrecoverable ignorance.

NBCW can be delivered by any reasonably healthy human being, with catastrophic efficacy.

NBC and particularly (Chemical / Biological Weapons) find their strength in the reasonably low tech requirements for production and the tiny payloads that can produce major death and destruction. That's to say they're cheap and easy to build and the delivery is limited only be the human imagination.

The biggest myth in the whole pre-Iraqi Liberation rhetoric was the forced misunderstanding of what "Huge Stockpiles" actually means.

MASSIVE Stockpiles of a Nerve Agent would be a shoe box... A Stock the size of a semi-load would be sufficient to kill MILLIONS of people and with a murderous pack of animals such as al Qaeda to deliver them, by simply walking into town and assembling them on equipment which they’re already well known to be building all of the world...

The Capitols and major cities of every western country on earth could be thoroughly shut down, their economies crippled and again... each realizing tens of thousands if not MILLIONS of deaths from a single Semi-truck load of a weapon-ized nerve agent.

There is no need for ICBMs or Jet aircraft. All they need is a human being willing to carry a package to another human being who can follow some fairly simple directions.

And THAT was the danger which existed in Iraq prior to the US liberating that nation from its Socialist tyranny. No one in the Bush administration ever implied that Iraq was anything approaching a threat by conventional military means. The threat was that noted above: Iraq was a longstanding overt promoter of international Islamic terrorism and had a history of using CBW, add to that Hussein’s declaration of war on the US and his belligerent refusal to reject International Islamic terrorism and comply with his obligations he incurred through the 1993 cease fire treaty; there was truly no choice but to remove him and his oppressive Socialist government from power.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 06-14-2008, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Publius Infinitum View Post
ROFLMNAO...

This position is the result of irrecoverable ignorance.

NBCW can be delivered by any reasonably healthy human being, with catastrophic efficacy.

NBC and particularly (Chemical / Biological Weapons) find their strength in the reasonably low tech requirements for production and the tiny payloads that can produce major death and destruction. That's to say they're cheap and easy to build and the delivery is limited only be the human imagination.

The biggest myth in the whole pre-Iraqi Liberation rhetoric was the forced misunderstanding of what "Huge Stockpiles" actually means.

MASSIVE Stockpiles of a Nerve Agent would be a shoe box... A Stock the size of a semi-load would be sufficient to kill MILLIONS of people and with a murderous pack of animals such as al Qaeda to deliver them, by simply walking into town and assembling them on equipment which they’re already well known to be building all of the world...

The Capitols and major cities of every western country on earth could be thoroughly shut down, their economies crippled and again... each realizing tens of thousands if not MILLIONS of deaths from a single Semi-truck load of a weapon-ized nerve agent.

There is no need for ICBMs or Jet aircraft. All they need is a human being willing to carry a package to another human being who can follow some fairly simple directions.

And THAT was the danger which existed in Iraq prior to the US liberating that nation from its Socialist tyranny. No one in the Bush administration ever implied that Iraq was anything approaching a threat by conventional military means. The threat was that noted above: Iraq was a longstanding overt promoter of international Islamic terrorism and had a history of using CBW, add to that Hussein’s declaration of war on the US and his belligerent refusal to reject International Islamic terrorism and comply with his obligations he incurred through the 1993 cease fire treaty; there was truly no choice but to remove him and his oppressive Socialist government from power.
You might have a point here if it weren't for one fact... yes FACT

Two different inspection regimes had certified that anything of this nature that Iraq may have had left, was over ten years old and thus INERT!

And if you want to refute it, post something verifiable, a link, a document, something to back up your BS.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2008, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by A. Crowley View Post
You fools are sick.

Ya'll just make it up as you go to feed yer fascist fantasies.


Wank Harder, Republicant losers!

Here we find yet another pro-terrorist leftist (Pardon the redundancy) that wants to contest the argument, but due to the dstinct inability to reason, opts to roll out the vaunted 'Nuh HUH!' defense.

The thing to remember here is that IF they could offer a valid defense... THEY WOULD! So they don't...

ROFL... Leftists...
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2008, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Back Atcha View Post
You might have a point here if it weren't for one fact... yes FACT

Two different inspection regimes had certified that anything of this nature that Iraq may have had left, was over ten years old and thus INERT!

And if you want to refute it, post something verifiable, a link, a document, something to back up your BS.
Back up what? To back something up, I'm going to need you to challenge a specific something. Otherwise my position is unchallenged.

When you CHALLENGE a SPECIFIC SOMETHING, you place yourself, your reputation, your command of the issue at risk, through your assertion that the specific something is incorrect...

Here, let me give you a demonstration...

Inert?

Well that's interesting... I didn't realize that storing Nerve Agent for ten years made it inert.

(Stand back kids... I'm forced to roll out a kill shot here.)

Would you please provide evidence which supports your assertion that Nerve agent, blister agent, biologicals, etc... are rendered "INERT" when stored for ten years?

I trained to deploy US NBC munitions which had been (based upon the production dates on the munitions themselves) shelved for 30 years... we also trained to defend against Soviet munitions (Iraq's military was based upon and heavily subsidized by the Soviet Union) and Soviet CBW inventories were also known to be decades old and while some DEGRADATION may be realized over years of storage, the lethality, indisputably, remains at HIGH READINESS. The munitions Iraq used in Kurdistan were nearly a decade old.

The pro-terrorist, leftist media (pardon the redundancy) projected a myth where the tons of Iraqi CBW found post Iraqi Liberation were 'degraded' which intentionally left the idiot left (pardon the redundancy) to conclude that the munitions were harmless, or as this buffoon has asserted: INERT.

I would however love to tape for U-tube an experiment where this tool, his parent, siblings, aunts, uncles, spouse and children were locked in a room with any single one of the hundreds of nerve agent artillery rounds found stockpiled in Iraq...

I say lock that family in a sealed room, release the NA into the airsupply and let the U-Tube world decide if it is INERT!

Hell I'd pay to see it...

Of course you'd have to hog-tie this leftists to get him in that room with what he claims is INERT material being released into the airsupply he breathes. What he is is a fool and what's worse is he's a lying fool.

But hey... What leftist isn't?

Last edited by Publius Infinitum; 06-15-2008 at 11:31 AM.
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