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05-19-2008, 04:24 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakuanSoho
Because of the nature of the military. It is one of those jobs that people LOVE during peacetime, but don't want to be in during war. But at the same time, the only value the military has is during the war, so if no one was willing to fight it, then we wouldn't need it during peacetime.
This is why you shouldn't join the military unless you are willing to fight for your country.
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Your argument doesn't make sense since so many joined specifically because of an act of war and wishing to serve in it.
This guy in question has fought for his country...why should he not be allowed to make a determination that can only be negated by, "my country right or wrong"?
IOW, why doesn't the military allow for morality based dissent?
__________________
"All the problems we face in the United States today can be traced to an unenlightened immigration policy on the part of the American Indian."
Which side will you be on?
OBAMA/PEROT
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05-19-2008, 04:29 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by areyoushittin'me?
Your argument doesn't make sense since so many joined specifically because of an act of war and wishing to serve in it.
This guy in question has fought for his country...why should he not be allowed to make a determination that can only be negated by, "my country right or wrong"?
IOW, why doesn't the military allow for morality based dissent?
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They do....and it comes with a consequence to pay for your beliefs. If there was no consequence, how many soldiers would be lost due to cold feet?
__________________
Life is too short for endless patience.
-rice "hussein" chickie
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05-19-2008, 04:33 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Omaha, which is why Dave won't come here
Posts: 3,906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by areyoushittin'me?
Your argument doesn't make sense since so many joined specifically because of an act of war and wishing to serve in it.
This guy in question has fought for his country...why should he not be allowed to make a determination that can only be negated by, "my country right or wrong"?
IOW, why doesn't the military allow for morality based dissent?
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A question that shows (and seriously, I mean no disrespect) a real lack of knowledge concerning the Military and how it functions. It is not, never has been, and could never be a democratically run entity. Any Military body, by it's very NATURE must be run in an autocratic fashion. If it was not, it would fail. Very strict caste system....it is the only way to have a disciplined Fighting Force.
Added.....
There is indeed a procedure...but you damn well better be right. |
05-19-2008, 04:36 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricechickie
Why can't he? Because the military ISN'T some temporary welfare program for people who can't find jobs. They put time, money, and work into training a soldier, and the soldier (who signs a contract) is expected to hold up his/her end. That means the possibility of being sent to just about anywhere, and ordered to do just about anything.
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It's not like this guy hasn't provided some service but even at that, I agree that if he doesn't fullfill his contract completely, there should be some if not all loss of the "retirement" benefits just as there would be in any other form of employment.
Just about any company puts time and money into investing in their employees...doesn't mean you can't quit.
Going a step further, if you have a contract as a company and you don't fullfill it, you definately pay a price but you are still allowed to fail in our society.
Why is this guy not "allowed" to fail without paying an even higher price?
__________________
"All the problems we face in the United States today can be traced to an unenlightened immigration policy on the part of the American Indian."
Which side will you be on?
OBAMA/PEROT
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05-19-2008, 04:37 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by areyoushittin'me?
Your argument doesn't make sense since so many joined specifically because of an act of war and wishing to serve in it.
This guy in question has fought for his country...why should he not be allowed to make a determination that can only be negated by, "my country right or wrong"?
IOW, why doesn't the military allow for morality based dissent?
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Doesn't matter he signed a fixed term contract. Don't like the rules, don't sign the contract. |
05-19-2008, 04:39 PM
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Political Junkie
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakuanSoho
Because of the nature of the military. It is one of those jobs that people LOVE during peacetime, but don't want to be in during war. But at the same time, the only value the military has is during the war, so if no one was willing to fight it, then we wouldn't need it during peacetime.
This is why you shouldn't join the military unless you are willing to fight for your country.
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Have aways been puzzled by the "I didn;t know there'd be a war, man" excuse. Even an unnecessary, fvvk-up one like this. |
05-19-2008, 04:41 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricechickie
They do....and it comes with a consequence to pay for your beliefs.
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Like time in the brig? What does that accomplish besides not allow for those with "cold feet" an easier way out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricechickie
If there was no consequence, how many soldiers would be lost due to cold feet?
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Are they the ones who you want watching your back?
__________________
"All the problems we face in the United States today can be traced to an unenlightened immigration policy on the part of the American Indian."
Which side will you be on?
OBAMA/PEROT
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05-19-2008, 04:44 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Huh?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakuanSoho
Doesn't matter he signed a fixed term contract.
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Morals should matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TakuanSoho
Don't like the rules, don't sign the contract.
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Agreed, yet stupid shit like going into Iraq is probably why they have a hard time meeting recruitment goals.
__________________
"All the problems we face in the United States today can be traced to an unenlightened immigration policy on the part of the American Indian."
Which side will you be on?
OBAMA/PEROT
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05-19-2008, 04:47 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by areyoushittin'me?
Like time in the brig? What does that accomplish besides not allow for those with "cold feet" an easier way out?
Are they the ones who you want watching your back?
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It accomplishes making sure that people follow through with their obligations, and that they have to think long and hard before renegging on them.
__________________
Life is too short for endless patience.
-rice "hussein" chickie
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05-19-2008, 04:52 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noibn
Have aways been puzzled by the "I didn;t know there'd be a war, man" excuse. Even an unnecessary, fvvk-up one like this.
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That's not the excuse this guy is giving though...he has served in war...he questions the validity of the Iraq war...that's a big difference.
I would be quite willing to give my life if you could get me into a situation where I could blow bin-Laden to hell but I sure as shit wouldn't lift a finger to fight the Bushshit war in Iraq.
__________________
"All the problems we face in the United States today can be traced to an unenlightened immigration policy on the part of the American Indian."
Which side will you be on?
OBAMA/PEROT
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