I am going to now pick through this very specifically to show how very uniformed you continue to be. I appreciate the fact that you are optimistic as a foot soldier but the facts are that every 'best case scenario' that was planned out and implemented with the invasion and occupation of Iraq turned out to be the worst case scenario that no one listened to, ignored. We have continued to pay for this and are still paying for it.
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Originally Posted by Smitty0311
Squabbleing is a natural Democratic process.
It took us 6 years after the American revolution started to ratify the Articles of confederation. And we didnt need to worry about our familys being murdered and kidnaped by the British!
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You continue to talk about forming a democracy on American terms. First, all democracies are not the same. Let's take Great Britain or even Canada. Great Britain did not coalesce into a Parliamentary process the same way we broke from Britain...not at all. Canada did not go through the same process either, in fact they are much more reliant on their provinces having much more autonomy. Japan came to being a democracy because it was handed to them, there was no argument after WWII---and they are a different democracy than the U.S. India is another example of democracy that is far different than ours...Pakistan is also a Democracy but now in deep shit. Comparing Iraq to any one democracy and especially to us is disingenuous at best, much the way George Bush has done. It is a terribly Amer-centric and a very misguided view.
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Originally Posted by Smitty0311
Its the exact opposit for the Iraqis. The Iraqis do have a democracy. There leaders are elected and they have passed more legeslation than we have. They are the fastest growing nation in the world. They have more than doubled there GDP from before we invaded. They have more children going to school than before the war. They have more electricity than before the war. They have more tv stations, media outlets, magazines, and news papers than before the war. Iraqis are returning to Iraq on an average of 1000 per day. The insergency is almost compleatly defeated. Finally they have more phone service than before the war. YOU CANT ARGUE THAT IRAQ IS WORKING! QUIT LOOKING FOR EXCUSSES FOR DEFEAT!
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The figures you have are based on what? Saddam's economy/infrastructure and what was going on there?
There are no accurate figures. The Bush administration used that to their advantage to start the overthrow saying that sanctions were not working and the Iraqi economy was thriving at full speed because of the black market and the lack of teeth the sanctions have (of course blaming Bill Clinton). You have no idea if Iraq is working or not, you have literally nothing to compare it to. This renders all your claims completely superfluous.
I do not know where you are getting your information from but the military leaders who actually know the situation say the security and infrastructure timescale Iraq is on will take many years, not months. Sadr's Mahdi army is still a very potent force and has many men, his and other militants are now focused away from Baghdad and going to other parts of Iraq---this is from Special Forces people who know what is actually going on right now. There is still no clear sign of reconciliation towards the impending civil war that will be fought...and it will be fought. This is not a functioning democracy yet and between Kurds, Shiia, and Sunni a dominant force will exert itself in a battle waiting to happen; these sectarian forces are much more powerful and divided than you can ever imagine anything here in the U.S. or any Western country.
Again, every best case scenario has been proven wrong and turned quickly into the worst case scenario, from the planning in 2002 of Saddam's overthrow and occupation to the present. A quote about where this is, "Shakespeare's tragedies have five acts, and I fear we have not even seen the beginning of Act IV."
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