CSM on Guantanamo

Cordelier · #**111** (**permalink**) 03-23-2007, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormanNorman

You know, Cordelier, I sometimes wonder if the fall of the Soviet Union was such a good thing afterall. No doubt, not having a thousand or more nuclear warheads pointing your way is a relief. But, did we lose our drive to be the beacon of freedom, justice, and all things good? Does absolute power corrupt absolutely?

Ahhhh.... But now you're forgetting the whole McCarthy era, Storman. I think what motivates America more than anything else is fear. That's what I don't get about the US - you have all of this wealth and power and ability... but deep down inside you're probably the most scared country on the face of the Earth.

I can't get over it - everytime I go to the US, everyone I meet is afraid. They're afraid to go out and take a walk at night without getting mugged. Just about every woman I've met has a gun or pepper spray in her purse. Hell, in Canada we don't even lock our doors at night! They're afraid to put in a pool because the neighbors' kids might get hurt and sue them... or that their own kids will get hurt and they'll have to pay for their healthcare. You're afraid of being rich, because you'll be robbed and you're afraid of being poor because you'll be treated like dirt.

Is this the American dream?? I know for a fact I wouldn't be able to live the way most Americans live. I think FDR had it right... if you look beyond all of the crap, all you have to fear is fear itself.

Cordelier · #**112** (**permalink**) 03-23-2007, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluedog

The reason that I am posting on this thread is, The court systems are directly involved with the Gitmo detainees.

Sense there are quite a few that like to dip into the records of history to make a point, and often time they misrepresent the facts with opinion. I will give you, a bit of information directly from the records of congress on Jan. 10, 1963

Congressman Albert S.Herlong Jr., D-Fla. read a list of 45 communist goals into the congressional record, these were obtained from the party within the US, and found within the group known as the ACLU. I'm just going to quote just the very first one.

USE TECHNICAL DECISIONS OF THE COURTS TO WEAKEN BASIC AMERICAN INSTITUTIONS, BY CLAIMING THEIR ACTIVITIES VIOLATE CIVIL RIGHTS. Now a little history of the infamous ACLU or as I call them the AMERICAN COMMUNISTS LAWYER UNION.

The aclu was founded in the 20's by Roger Baldwin and Crystal Eastman. Earl Browder as gen. sec. of the Comm. Polictical Association, became president of this group(aclu) in 1944. He said and I quote " the aclu functions as a transmisssion belt for the party( communist)."

Now this is the group that the left sets on a pedestal as being the guardian of our civil rights...oh really? It is just opinion, but I think that I would prefer an ambulance chaser from the yellow pages to litigate on my behalf.....BD

So the ACLU is a Communist front organization??

Here's the way I figure it, Bluedog... if a basic American institution violates a person's civil rights, then doesn't it deserve to be weakened, regardless of who files the lawsuit against it? If Joseph Stalin was a black man and he was made to go to the back of that bus instead of Rosa Parks, would that make his case any less valid?

Shouldn't every legal case be judged solely on it's own merits?

Sam · #**113** (**permalink**) 03-23-2007, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cordelier

Ahhhh.... But now you're forgetting the whole McCarthy era, Storman. I think what motivates America more than anything else is fear. That's what I don't get about the US - you have all of this wealth and power and ability... but deep down inside you're probably the most scared country on the face of the Earth.

I can't get over it - everytime I go to the US, everyone I meet is afraid. They're afraid to go out and take a walk at night without getting mugged. Just about every woman I've met has a gun or pepper spray in her purse. Hell, in Canada we don't even lock our doors at night! They're afraid to put in a pool because the neighbors' kids might get hurt and sue them... or that their own kids will get hurt and they'll have to pay for their healthcare. You're afraid of being rich, because you'll be robbed and you're afraid of being poor because you'll be treated like dirt.

Is this the American dream?? I know for a fact I wouldn't be able to live the way most Americans live. I think FDR had it right... if you look beyond all of the crap, all you have to fear is fear itself.

Lots of different subjects in different directions but this subject ...fear is a great one. I live in a safe city and peaceful neighborhood yet people are fearful...no one is out late walking. Everyone has security systems and guns.

I let my son have a party with 25 host students and 25 exchange students about a month ago. Parents commented how brave I was...wasn't I afraid that someone would get hurt in the jecuzzi or I might be sued!

I have lived in a small town in Italy and in Paris. People stroll late at night. I felt so comfortable walking everywhere anytime day or night. American cities people act scared to death.

Read some of the second amendment threads. Besides all the bickering I sense an underlying fear from so many posters...they need their gun at their side all the time or they are scared to death. I like international remote travel and many of my friends refer to that as "brave". I almost think many are afraid to live.

Most of the exchnage students from all over the world say they really like America but they would not trade their passports for anything in the world. There is no piazza with friends hanging out or people strolling.

George O Well · #**114** (**permalink**) 03-26-2007, 06:20 PM

"but deep down inside you're probably the most scared country on the face of the Earth."

>>>I don't doubt it. There's a whole "scare 'em up" industry going on in this country.

sotmfs · #**115** (**permalink**) 03-26-2007, 06:44 PM

Keep people afraid,confused,and misinformed leads to some keeping the "power".

Sam · #**116** (**permalink**) 03-27-2007, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cordelier

Doesn't the Fifth Amendment guarantee due process protection to all persons? It does say persons, doesn't it? The Fifth doesn't limit it's protections to the narrower term citizens, does it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_Al_Hajj

What do you think of this case Cordelier?

Cordelier · #**117** (**permalink**) 03-29-2007, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_Al_Hajj

What do you think of this case Cordelier?

I think you can probably guess what I think of that case, Sam. What I don't get is this - Al Hajj was detained in Pakistan... not on the battlefield in Afghanistan. He shouldn't be detained by the US military at all. Pakistan has a fully legitimate and long-standing extradition treaty with the US - if the US had valid reason to seek his incarcaration, they could have easily obtained his extradition into US custody.

Sam · #**118** (**permalink**) 04-01-2007, 09:02 PM

Yes Cordeleir I knew what you would think. This is one of many examples about Guatanamo. Again I stress my point that I have no inclination to be soft on terrorists but if you review this thread many posters on this forum do not care about Americas leadership in human rights. Scan the thread..it is just a joke to many here...sad.

Defence Secretary Robert Gates repeatedly has argued that the detention facility in Guatanamo is so tainted it should be shut down as qucikly as possible. He has said that legal proceedings there could be considered illegitimate.

We do not have to sacrifice our moral and human rights leadership position to convict terroists or be safer.