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08-29-2006, 12:16 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,632
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The Israel Lobby
"For the past several decades, and especially since the Six-Day War in 1967, the centrepiece of US Middle Eastern policy has been its relationship with Israel. The combination of unwavering support for Israel and the related effort to spread ‘democracy’ throughout the region has inflamed Arab and Islamic opinion and jeopardised not only US security but that of much of the rest of the world. This situation has no equal in American political history. Why has the US been willing to set aside its own security and that of many of its allies in order to advance the interests of another state? One might assume that the bond between the two countries was based on shared strategic interests or compelling moral imperatives, but neither explanation can account for the remarkable level of material and diplomatic support that the US provides." -John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt
>>>AIPAC is the second largest PAC in America behind only AARP (and many AARP members are also in AIPAC). Any candidate (Rep or Dem) with the temerity to speak out about the lack of an arm's-length relationship between American and Israel can expect his opponent to receive a healthy check from AIPAC the next day. (Personally, I find this disgusting and unAmerican.)
If you're wondering why we are in Iraq today, and why nobody in the administration spoke out about Israel's disproportionate response to Lebanon, you need wonder no more. There is simply no daylight between US and Israeli policy makers.
PS: Mearsheimer knows what he's talking about. He's Jewish and from the Univ. of Chicago, the birthplace and cradle of neoconservatism.
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08-29-2006, 02:21 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,830
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Absolutly 100% true...however there are many people (esp on this board) who completly fail to recongnize that our gov't unwavering support of Isael has been detrimental to the US's own national security interests...from personal expieriences I can say that Jordanians love Americans,they think Americans are worldly and intellegent they think that American streets are paved with gold and that Americans use money to clean their behinds...well that a little exagerated but the point is while they love Americans, they dislike American policy in the region which has led to the "refugee state of Jordan" where jordanians are out numbered by Palestinians.......Jordan also has a significant number of Iraqi refugees now as they have had since about 1991
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08-29-2006, 08:13 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SW Oklahoma
Posts: 15,583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken.e
Absolutly 100% true...however there are many people (esp on this board) who completly fail to recongnize that our gov't unwavering support of Isael has been detrimental to the US's own national security interests...from personal expieriences I can say that Jordanians love Americans,they think Americans are worldly and intellegent they think that American streets are paved with gold and that Americans use money to clean their behinds...well that a little exagerated but the point is while they love Americans, they dislike American policy in the region which has led to the "refugee state of Jordan" where jordanians are out numbered by Palestinians.......Jordan also has a significant number of Iraqi refugees now as they have had since about 1991
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Yes, I am one on this forum that supports Isreal regardless. 
__________________
An informed voter scares the Goverment lackeys.
An American first and always a Conservative.
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08-29-2006, 09:09 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cowtown, Texas
Posts: 7,417
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I support Israel soley for religious reasons. God said I will bless those that stand with Israel and curse those that oppose her.
Genesis 12:2-3
2 "I will make you into a great nation
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you."
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08-29-2006, 11:39 PM
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Political Guru
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 570
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And if we didn't support Israel with weapons and as a deterent to potential Arab attackers what would become of them? Obviously, as a good ally we should point out some of their mistakes (mistreatment of Palestinians) , but our support is absolutely vital to Israel because of it's enemies. The US government sould maintain it's pro Israeli stance especially with the potential for a nuclear armed Iran. The Isreali's can never catch a break, even when they do make genuine efforts to solve the Palestinian crisis as. Eg. Sharon's unilateral retreat inside Isreal from Gaza.
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08-29-2006, 11:58 PM
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Political Junkie
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: TN
Posts: 196
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I'm with you forreal!
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08-30-2006, 12:15 AM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CougFan23
And if we didn't support Israel with weapons and as a deterent to potential Arab attackers what would become of them? Obviously, as a good ally we should point out some of their mistakes (mistreatment of Palestinians) , but our support is absolutely vital to Israel because of it's enemies. The US government sould maintain it's pro Israeli stance especially with the potential for a nuclear armed Iran. The Isreali's can never catch a break, even when they do make genuine efforts to solve the Palestinian crisis as. Eg. Sharon's unilateral retreat inside Isreal from Gaza.
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I agree, then what?
We are "friendly" with israel and this make us enemies of islamic sects.
Who are they to deem who the US allies with?
We ignored the nazi's until we noticed a genocide throughout europe.
Instead of creating forces against israel, why aren't these countries creating forces towards building on their own homeland?
Remember, when the jews were given the land, the land was rubble, now the land is a nation with a prosperous economy.
Are the israeli's envied for their production?
Are they hated for their ambition?
Is this a war of class envy?
__________________
"The world is a fine place and worth fighting for" Ernest Hemingway
"The world will know that free men stood against a tyrant, that few stood against many" Spartan King Leonidas
Last edited by monkeyinthemiddle; 08-30-2006 at 12:20 AM.
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08-30-2006, 12:33 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob
Yes, I am one on this forum that supports Isreal regardless. 
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I don't think anybody's saying Israel shouldn't be supported, per se. The authors are saying that support for Israel should be open to debate in this country like everything else. Since the 6-Day War, such debate has been locked down tighter than Cheney's Energy Task Force minutes.
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08-30-2006, 12:36 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,632
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"I support Israel soley for religious reasons. God said I will bless those that stand with Israel and curse those that oppose her."
>>>God's wrong on this one. Why would he want US Christians to stand with atheists?
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08-30-2006, 12:41 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CougFan23
And if we didn't support Israel with weapons and as a deterent to potential Arab attackers what would become of them? Obviously, as a good ally we should point out some of their mistakes (mistreatment of Palestinians) , but our support is absolutely vital to Israel because of it's enemies. The US government sould maintain it's pro Israeli stance especially with the potential for a nuclear armed Iran. The Isreali's can never catch a break, even when they do make genuine efforts to solve the Palestinian crisis as. Eg. Sharon's unilateral retreat inside Isreal from Gaza.
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You gotta do more than 'point out' their mistakes. Not only have they abused the Pallies, their response against the Lebanese was punitive, disproportionate, and contrary to the rules of war. If all you are going to do is point out their mistakes, while continuing to send them bombs and cash, you are complicit.
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