The Israel Lobby

POLITICAL JEDI · #21 (**permalink**) 09-13-2006, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George O Well

"For the past several decades, and especially since the Six-Day War in 1967, the centrepiece of US Middle Eastern policy has been its relationship with Israel. The combination of unwavering support for Israel and the related effort to spread ‘democracy’ throughout the region has inflamed Arab and Islamic opinion and jeopardised not only US security but that of much of the rest of the world. This situation has no equal in American political history. Why has the US been willing to set aside its own security and that of many of its allies in order to advance the interests of another state? One might assume that the bond between the two countries was based on shared strategic interests or compelling moral imperatives, but neither explanation can account for the remarkable level of material and diplomatic support that the US provides." -John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt

>>>AIPAC is the second largest PAC in America behind only AARP (and many AARP members are also in AIPAC). Any candidate (Rep or Dem) with the temerity to speak out about the lack of an arm's-length relationship between American and Israel can expect his opponent to receive a healthy check from AIPAC the next day. (Personally, I find this disgusting and unAmerican.)

If you're wondering why we are in Iraq today, and why nobody in the administration spoke out about Israel's disproportionate response to Lebanon, you need wonder no more. There is simply no daylight between US and Israeli policy makers.

PS: Mearsheimer knows what he's talking about. He's Jewish and from the Univ. of Chicago, the birthplace and cradle of neoconservatism.

POINT #1: I must say this is by far the most flawed view in the world today! Georgie here thinks that we shouldn't ally ourselves with Isreal. To that I ask Why? Isn't it better to support a successful, peaceful democracy, then to support the despots and autocracy that run ramped throughout the M.E? Lets speak the truth here: It wasn't Israelis that hijacked our planes, killed 3000 innocent civilians and reduced our most majestic landmarks into rubble. Those perpetrators were spawned under despots and autocracy.

POINT #2: Of course our spreading of democracy has the despots in an uproar. A successful democracy on their doorstep only highlights their illegitimacy and failure as a state. When Iraq was voting, every arab watched on al jazerra tv and were moved to ask the obvious question: Why are Iraqis the only arabs voting in free elections?

Futhermore, the only thing that "jeopardised not only US security but that of much of the rest of the world." is radical islamic terrorist. Not the U.S or it's allies.

POINT #3: I would love for the author to explain in great detail how "the US been willing to set aside its own security and that of many of its allies in order to advance the interests of another state?" We have not set aside our own security. In fact the programs the president has undertaken (eavesdropping, and money transfer monitoring) suggest the exact opposite!

POINT #4: I'm not wondering why we are in Iraq. Our president and our congress voted to remove Saddam from power is why we are in Iraq. Futhermore, It goes hand in glove with recognizing the problem and coming up with a solution. "There is not a single, remotely plausible, alternative strategy for attacking the monster behind 9/11. It’s not Osama bin Laden; it is the cauldron of political oppression, religious intolerance, and social ruin in the Arab-Islamic world--oppression transmuted and deflected by regimes with no legitimacy into virulent, murderous anti-Americanism. It’s not one man; it is a condition. It will be nice to find that man and hang him, but that’s the cops-and-robbers law-enforcement model of fighting terrorism that we tried for twenty years and that gave us 9/11. This is war, and in war arresting murderers is nice. But you win by taking territory—and leaving something behind--And that "something" is democracy.

POINT #5: Disproportionate response??? ROFLMAO!!! http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...072701725.html

POINT #6 You obviously have a "beef" with neoconservatism. As I said on another political website:

"In the victory of seeing Milosevic go down without a single american death, the Taliban government destroyed at very little cost, and Saddam removed from power with little more than 100 fatalities, I think america as a whole was under the assumption that the United States could simply nod and dictators would fall and democracy would follow. I know I did!

But here's the chocolate boys and girls. . . Had we lost 100 in birthing democracy and not 2,670, or seen purple fingers only and not the carnage from IEDs on CNN's nightly broadcasts, today's critics would be arguing over who first thought up the idea of removing Saddam and implementing the new "neoconservative" foreign policy! We know this to be true because 3/4 of americans were in favor of the war once they saw the statue of saddam fall."

Now try and debate that!

ken.e · #22 (**permalink**) 09-15-2006, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeyinthemiddle

The palistinian people were pawns to egypt, syria and jordan, they have not worked at establishing a nation, palistinians only real ambition is progress towards decimating Israel...
Here's some facts to speculate .

Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam.
Arab refugees began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.
Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 B.C.E, the Jews had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.
The only Arab domination since the conquest in 635 C.E. lasted no more than 22 years.

For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital.
Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity.
Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.
Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 hundred times in Bible.
Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.

King David founded the city of Jerusalem.
Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.
Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.
Arab and Jewish refugees: Arabs were not driven out of their homes. Following the UN decision on Partition in 1948, the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders, promising to purge the land of Jews. They argued that an "Arab presence" would only get in the way of the planned devastation. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.

The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.
The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees absorbed by Israel from Arab countries is estimated to be the same.

Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory.
Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples'lands.
Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey.

The Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.
The P.L.O.'s Charter still calls for the destruction of the state of Israel.
Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank and autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied their police and security forces with weapons.

Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Jewish grave markers were used to build public urinals in occupied Jerusalem.
Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.

The U.N. record on Israel and the Arabs of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel -- notwithstanding the fact that the Arabs refused to participate in the 15 nation United Nations Commission of Palestine which recommended partition in 1948 and sought immediately to undo its work by force of arms.
Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.

The U.N. was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians between 1948 and 1967.
The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives between 1948 and 1967.
The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall between 1948 and 1967.

Well according to muslims The prophet Muhammed has been to Jerusalem ( AlQuds0 and in fact Jerusalem was the first Qibla ( direction of prayer) In Islam. Also Muslims belive in the same prophets and holy figures as both jews and Christians. Your attempt to downplay the role of Al quds in Islam has no justification and is an attempt at twisting the truth. Apparantly you do not know much about Islam so don't try and tell Muslims or other people what muslims believe, because quite frankly you have no idea

monkeyinthemiddle · #23 (**permalink**) 09-15-2006, 09:48 PM

1'ST MILLENNIUM BC
1000 BC : David, Israel's great king, finally defeated the Philistines, and they eventually assimilated with the Canaanites . The unity of Israel and the feebleness of adjacent empires enabled David to establish a large independent state, with its capital at Jerusalem.

922 BC : Under David's son and successor, Solomon, Israel enjoyed peace and prosperity , but at his death in 922 BC the kingdom was divided into Israel in the north and Judah in the south .

722-721 BC : When nearby empires resumed their expansion, the divided Israelites could no longer maintain their independence . Israel fell to Assyria.

586 BC : Judah was conquered by Babylonia, which destroyed Jerusalem and exiled most of the Jews living there. Nebuchadnezzar entered Jerusalem. The Temple was sacked and set fire to, and razed to the ground. The Royal Palace and all the great houses were destroyed, the population carried off in chains to Babylon. And they lamented on their long march into exile.

539 BC : Cyrus the Great of Persia conquered Babylonia and he permitted the Jews to return to Judea, a district of Palestine. Under Persian rule the Jews were allowed considerable autonomy. They rebuilt the walls of Jerusalem and codified the Mosaic law, the Torah, which became the code of social life and religious observance. The Jews were bound to a universal God.

333 BC : Persian domination of Palestine was replaced by Greek rule when Alexander the Great of Macedonia took the region. Alexander's successors, the Ptolemies of Egypt and the Seleucids of Syria , continued to rule the country . The Seleucids tried to impose Hellenistic (Greek) culture and religion on the population.

141-63 BC : Jews revolted under the Maccabees and set up an independent state.

132-35 BC : Jews revolts erupted, numerous Jews were killed, many were sold into slavery, and the rest were not allowed to visit Jerusalem. Judea was renamed Syria Palaistina.

63 BC : Jerusalem was overrun by Rome. Herod was appointed King of Judea. He slaughtered the last of the Hasmoneans and ordered a lavish restoration and extension of the Second Temple. A period of great civil disorder followed with strife between pacifists and Zealots, and riots against the Roman authorities.

37-4 BC : During the rule of King Herod the Great Jesus of Nazareth, peace be upon him was born. And years after, he began his teaching mission. His attempts to call people back to the pure teachings of Abraham and Moses were judged subversive by the authorities. He was tried and sentenced to death; "yet they did not slay him but only a likeness that was shown to them."

monkeyinthemiddle · #24 (**permalink**) 09-15-2006, 09:51 PM

70 AD : Titus of Rome laid siege to Jerusalem. The fiercely defended Temple eventually fell, and with it the whole city. Seeking a complete and enduring victory, Titus ordered the total destruction of the Herodian Temple. A new city named Aelia was built by the Romans on the ruins of Jerusalem, and a temple dedicated to Jupitor raised up.

313 AD : Palestine received special attention when the Roman emperor Constantine I legalized Christianity. His mother, Helena, visited Jerusalem, and Palestine, as the Holy Land, became a focus of Christian pilgrimage. A golden age of prosperity, security, and culture followed. Most of the population became Hellenized and Christianized .

324 AD : Constantine of Byzantium marched on Aelia. He rebuilt the city walls and commissioned the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, and opened the city for Christian pilgrimage.

29-614 AD : Byzantine (Roman) rule was interrupted , however , by a brief Persian occupation and ended altogether when Muslim Arab armies invaded Palestine and captured Jerusalem in AD 638 .

638 AD : The Arab conquest began 1300 years of Muslim presence in what then became known as Filastin. Eager to be rid of their Byzantine overlords and aware of their shared heritage with the Arabs, the descendants of Ishmael, as well as the Muslims reputation for mercy and compassion in victory, the people of Jerusalem handed over the city after a brief siege. They made only one condition, That the terms of their surrender be negotiated directly with the Khalif 'Umar in person. 'Umar entered Jerusalem on foot. There was no bloodshed. There were no massacres. Those who wanted to leave were allowed to, with all their goods. Those who wanted to stay were guarantee protection for their lives, their property and places of worship.

Palestine was holy to Muslims because the Prophet Muhammad had designated Jerusalem as the first qibla (the direction Muslims face when praying) and because he was believed to have ascended on a night journey to heaven from the the old city of Jerusalem (al-Aqsa Mosque today) , where the Dome of the Rock was later built. Jerusalem became the third holiest city of Islam. The Muslim rulers did not force their religion on the Palestinians, and more than a century passed before the majority converted to Islam. The remaining Christians and Jews were considered People of the Book. They were allowed autonomous control in their communities and guaranteed security and freedom of worship. Such tolerance was rare in the history of religion . Most Palestinians also adopted Arabic and Islamic culture. Palestine benefited from the empires trade and from its religious significance during the first Muslim dynasty, the Umayyads of Damascus.

750 AD : The power shifted to Baghdad with the Abbasids, Palestine became neglected. It suffered unrest and successive domination by Seljuks, Fatimids, and European Crusaders. It shared, however, in the glory of Muslim civilization, when the Muslim world enjoyed a golden age of science, art, philosophy, and literature. Muslims preserved Greek learning and broke new ground in several fields, all of which later contributed to the Renaissance in Europe. Like the rest of the empire, however, Palestine under the Mamelukes gradually stagnated and declined.

monkeyinthemiddle · #25 (**permalink**) 09-15-2006, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken.e

Well according to muslims The prophet Muhammed has been to Jerusalem ( AlQuds0 and in fact Jerusalem was the first Qibla ( direction of prayer) In Islam. Also Muslims belive in the same prophets and holy figures as both jews and Christians. Your attempt to downplay the role of Al quds in Islam has no justification and is an attempt at twisting the truth. Apparantly you do not know much about Islam so don't try and tell Muslims or other people what muslims believe, because quite frankly you have no idea

Muhammed did not enter jerusalem.