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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2008, 06:40 AM
Machiavelli Incarnate
 
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Originally Posted by A. Crowley View Post
February 28, 2008

President Bush's War Has Cost Our Country Dearly

The Iraq war has exacted tremendous costs on our country. The lives and livelihoods of the thousands of courageous troops who have been killed and wounded is the most tragic cost. But the war has cost us in many other ways as well, including direct and indirect economic costs which are estimated by the Joint Economic Committee to reach $1.3 trillion by the close of 2008. According to Professor Stiglitz, who testifies before the JEC today, the costs could be even higher. The costs of war also include our failure to invest in domestic priorities, the strain on our military forces which has reduced our ability to respond to other threats both abroad and at home and the cost of taking our eye off the ball and failing to confront the terrorist threat posed by Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and Pakistan. All of these costs illustrate the urgent need to change course in Iraq, refocus the mission and begin to redeploy our troops.

War in Iraq has cost the lives and livelihoods of thousands of brave men and women in uniform:

3,972 U.S. Troops Have Been Killed in Iraq. According to iCasualties.org, 3,972 American troops have been killed in Iraq as of February 25, 2008. [iCasualties.org, 2/27/08]

29,080 American Soldiers Wounded Through January 2008. According to iCasualties.org, 29,080 U.S. troops have been wounded in support in Iraq through January 2008. [iCasualties.org, 2/27/08]

Iraq war has had tremendous fiscal and economic costs:

Current Cost of War in Iraq Is Almost $11 Billion Per Month. “In FY2007, DOD’s monthly obligations for contracts and pay averaged about $12.3 billion including about $10.3 billion for Iraq and $2.0 billion for Afghanistan.” [CRS Report, 2/22/08]

That Amounts to…

$332,258,064 Per Day
$13,844,086 Per Hour
$230,734 Per Minute
$3,845 Per Second
U.S. Has Already Spent $526 Billion on War in Iraq. “This $700 billion total covers all war-related appropriations from FY2001 in supplementals, regular appropriations, and continuing resolutions including not quite half of the FY2008 request. Of that total, CRS estimates that Iraq will receive about $526 billion (75%), OEF about $140 billion (20%), and enhanced base security about $28 billion (4%), with about $5 billion that CRS cannot allocate (1%).” [CRS Report, 2/22/08]

The Bush Administration Requested $72.8 Billion for War Costs in 2009 So Far. “For FY2009, the Administration has requested about $72.8 billion for war costs including a “placeholder” DOD war request of $70 billion, $1.5 billion for State Department/USAID foreign and diplomatic operations, and $1.3 billion for VA medical care for OIF and OEF veterans. Details for DOD’s request are expected after General David Petraeus makes his recommendations about future troop levels in April. With the pending FY2008 and FY2009 requests, the total for enacted or requested war funding is about $878 billion.” [CRS Report, 2/22/08]

Funding for Iraq War Increased 160% Between 2004 and 2008. “Annual war appropriations more than doubled from about $34 billion in FY2001/FY2002 to about $80 billion with the preparation for and invasion of Iraq in FY2003 (see Table 3). Based on passage of the FY2007 Supplemental, annual DOD funding are growing by an additional 75% between FY2004 and FY2007. If DOD’s total FY2008 request is enacted, the level in FY2008 would be 160% higher or more than one-and-one-half times larger than FY2004.” [CRS Report, 2/22/08]

Joint Economic Committee Estimated Total Cost of the at $1.3 Trillion Through 2008 - $16,500 for a Family of Four. The Joint Economic Committee has estimated that the total budgetary and economic costs of the Iraq War from FY 2002-2008 to be $1.3 trillion. This cost amounts to $16,500 in war costs for a family of four. These economic costs include the ongoing drain on U.S. economic growth created by Iraq-related borrowing, the disruptive effects of the conflict on world oil markets, the future care of our injured veterans, repair costs for the military, and other undisclosed costs. [Joint Economic Committee, 11/07]

Joint Economic Committee Estimated Total Cost of $2.8 Trillion Through 2017, Assuming Gradual Drawdown to 55,000 Troops. The Joint Economic Committee also estimated that assuming troops are gradually drawn down to 55,000 troops by 2013 and that level remained constant through 2017, the total economic cost of the war would be $2.8 trillion, or $36,900 for a family of four. [Joint Economic Committee, 11/07]

While pouring money into Iraq, we have failed to invest in domestic priorites here at home:

No Child Left Behind Has Been Underfunded By $71 Billion Since 2002. Since 2002 when it was enacted, the No Child Left Behind Act has been underfunded by $71 billion. This cumulative funding gap is comprised of the difference between funding authorized by the bill and the actual annual appropriations from FY 2002 through FY 2008. [NEA, 2/25/08]

American Society of Civil Engineers Estimated U.S. Must Invest $1.6 Trillion Over 5 Years to Bring the Nation's Infrastructure to Good Condition. In 2005, the Americans Society of Civil Engineers estimated that $1.6 trillion is needed over a five-year period to bring the nation's infrastructure to good condition. [American Society of Civil Engineers, Action Plan for the 110th Congress]

The Cost of 4 months in Iraq Could Modernize and Ensure Interoperable Communications for America’s 2.5 Million First Responders. The Department of Homeland Security has estimated that it would cost $40 billion to modernize communications for the 2.5 million first responders in the United States. [Department of Homeland Security, 3/17/04]

The Cost of 3 Months in Iraq Could Secure All Weapons-Usable Materials in Russia, to Prevent This Material From Falling Into the Hands of Terrorists. In the countries of the former Soviet Union there is currently enough unsecured radioactive material to build 40,000 nuclear weapons. In 2001, the bipartisan Baker-Cutler Commission stated that the “most urgent unmet national security threat to the United States today, is the danger that weapons of mass-destruction or weapons-usable material in Russia could be stolen and sold to terrorists or hostile nation states and used against American troops abroad or citizens at home. The Commission reported that it would cost $30 billion over eight to ten years to secure all weapons-usable material in Russia. [Campaign for America’s Future, A Report Card on the Department of Energy’s Nonproliferation Programs with Russia, 1/10/01]

The Cost of 22 Days in Iraq Could Safeguard Our Nation’s Ports from Attack. The Coast Guard has estimated that $7.5 billion over ten years would be necessary to implement the requirements of the 2002 Maritime Transportation Safety Act, which would protect U.S. ports and waterways from terrorist threats. [Center for American Progress, 7/1/04]

The Cost of 18 Hours in Iraq Could Secure U.S. Chemical Plants. According to the CBO, it would cost $255 million over five years to fully fund the Chemical Facilities Anti-Terrorism Act of 2006. [CBO, 6/26/06]
ALL OK TO PLEASE ISRAEL..
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2008, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gixaholic View Post
911 cost the american economy and people 1 trillion dollars and over 3000 dead in one day......

And this was the direct cost of doing nothing under the clinton administrations.... looks like the WOT is a deal compared to the do nothing policys of the past

... And your figures that you are using are misleading.. They also include our fight in afganistan.. but anyway....
Well, you must remember that Reagan-Bush supported the Taliban and in effect al qaeda, helping setup an office in NYC for them to work out of. From there they bombed the WTC within six weeks of Clinton taking office.

Now you might argue that Clinton failed to clean up the disaster that Reagan-Bush created, but one of the towers would have likely been destroyed if the truck had been parked closer to the column.

But Bush made 911 a lot worse that it was, and 3000 killed violently isn't a big deal. That happens every 4-5 months and no one gets upset in the Republican party.

In fact, a massacre like the one this week at the Jewish school hardly evokes and calls for action, other that to make it the rules in the US like those in Israel: students and teachers are encouraged to carry guns, which probably made it easier to carry the weapons into the Israeli school to start killing.

So, clearly, you don't care that 3000 people died. Nor do you care that more than 3000 died chasing ghosts in Iraq, because their just dumb soldiers, and thankfully they are dead. Now the 100,000 soldier who have suffered wounds in body and soul, you really wish they had died, because they will cost you in taxes for decades.

The Bush over-reaction to 911 was what drove up the costs. When the Murrow Building was bombed, Clinton didn't shutdown the nation, nor did he shutdown the nation when the WTC was bombed.

Quoting a retrospective report prepared by Congress:
Quote:
The Economic Effects of 9/11:
A Retrospective Assessment

The tragedy of September 11, 2001 was so sudden and devastating that it may be difficult at this point in time to write dispassionately and objectively about its effects on the U.S. economy. This retrospective review will attempt such an undertaking. The loss of lives and property on 9/11 was not large enough to have had a measurable effect on the productive capacity of the United States even though it had a very significant localized effect on New York City and, to a lesser degree, on the greater Washington, D.C. area. Thus, for 9/11 to affect the economy it would have had to have affected the price of an important input, such as energy, or had an adverse effect on aggregate demand via such mechanisms as consumer and business confidence, a financial panic or liquidity crisis, or an international run on the dollar.

It was initially thought that aggregate demand was seriously affected, for while the existing data showed that GDP growth was low in the first half of 2001, data published in October showed that GDP had contracted during the 3rd quarter. This led to the claim that “The terrorist attacks pushed a weak economy over the edge into an outright recession.” We now know, based on revised data, this is not so. At the time of 9/11 the economy was in its third consecutive quarter of contraction; positive growth resumed in the 4th quarter. This would suggest that any effects from 9/11 on demand were short lived. While this may be true, several events took place before, on, and shortly after 9/11, that made recovery either more rapid than it might have been or made it possible to take place. First, the Federal Reserve had eased credit during the first half of 2001 to stimulate aggregate demand. The economy responds to policy changes with a lag in time. Thus, the public response may have been felt in the 4th quarter giving the appearance that 9/11 had only a limited effect. Second, the Federal Reserve on and immediately after 9/11 took appropriate action to avert a financial panic and liquidity shortage. This was supplemented by support from foreign central banks to shore up the dollar in world markets and limited the contagion of 9/11 from spreading to other national economies. Nevertheless, U.S. trade with other countries, especially Canada, was disrupted. While oil prices spiked briefly, they quickly returned to their pre-9/11 levels.

Thus, it can be argued, timely action contained the short run economic effects of 9/11 on the overall economy. Over the longer run 9/11 will adversely affect U.S. productivity growth because resources are being and will be used to ensure the security of production, distribution, finance, and communication.
http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL31617.pdf

Katrina caused more economic damage than 911 because of the loss of capital and opportunity cost.

And Iraq had as much to do with Katrina as with 911.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2008, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mulp View Post
3000 killed violently isn't a big deal.
If it were 3000 morons like you, I'd celebrate in the street like a Palestinian.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2008, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gixaholic View Post
911 cost the american economy and people 1 trillion dollars and over 3000 dead in one day......

And this was the direct cost of doing nothing under the clinton administrations.... looks like the WOT is a deal compared to the do nothing policys of the past

... And your figures that you are using are misleading.. They also include our fight in afganistan.. but anyway....
Iraq had nothing to do with the war on terror, until Dumbya blew the door open for Al Qaeda.

You're still a dumbass.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2008, 12:15 PM
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Who attacked us on 911, was it the army, navy or air force of Al Qaeda, no it was 19 extremists who really believed, I guess that they would go to some mythical place in the sky and be surrounded by virgins – how crazy is that!, none-the-less they were will organized and funded and therefore certainly required the military response in Afghanistan. Iraq, I don’t understand, Sadam Hussien, granted a bad guy, but there are many bad leaders around the world why did he get the honor of our rath. I believe, since he ran a more secular society with respect to radical Islam, he would never have allowed terrorists to set up camp in his country. We need to bring our troops home from Iraq and concentrate on the security of this country – borders and ports, investigation of Islamic organizations, wire taps if necessary, etc.
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Old 03-14-2008, 10:27 AM
Machiavelli Incarnate
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DammitBoy! View Post
If it were 3000 morons like you, I'd celebrate in the street like a Palestinian.
killing palestinian children????
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2008, 11:07 AM
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Gix you must have no mind or a mind so atrophied it doesn't work right anymore.

Let me tell you how 911 should have been handled cheaply and effectively.

First shut our borders especially the southern border. Security clearance can be given for business travel. It is not that hard.Hire some Americans to do more security checks on inner North American Business travelers . The same for Visa's Hire some Americans to pre screen visa's.

Secondly, Hire some Americans to round up illegals in this country and visa over stayers. Round them up determine of they are a security risk and if we're going to let them stay or not. Put them on a path to legality if they are staying and make them check in for awhile till they are legal citizens or round them up and deport them.

Thirdly. Bring some of our large navy and air force home and put them guarding the coast and skies of the country.

Presto , like magic no more security or terrorism problems. Except of course the nuts who shoot up campuses or post offices but those are home grown.

And it would be a lot cheaper and give Americans good Jobs.

Since we'd be saving so much money by not waging a stupid war. Maybe we could spend a little to fight crime in this country. Maybe do something about the 52 people a day who are murdered by other americans in this country each day. In case the math is too hard for you Gix that is over 17,000 people a year in this country killed by other Americans.

Grow a brain gix , take some ginko biloba or something. Spare the rest of us your senseless rants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gixaholic View Post
911 cost the american economy and people 1 trillion dollars and over 3000 dead in one day......

And this was the direct cost of doing nothing under the clinton administrations.... looks like the WOT is a deal compared to the do nothing policys of the past

... And your figures that you are using are misleading.. They also include our fight in afganistan.. but anyway....
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2008, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DammitBoy! View Post
If it were 3000 morons like you, I'd celebrate in the street like a Palestinian.

I'm with you dammit boy.

But where are you going to find 3000 morons like Gix ?
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2008, 11:51 AM
Machiavelli Incarnate
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvpeach View Post

But where are you going to find 3000 morons
Try looking in West Virginia, 'specially in the hollers.
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Old 03-14-2008, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mulp View Post
Well, you must remember that Reagan-Bush supported the Taliban and in effect al qaeda, helping setup an office in NYC for them to work out of. From there they bombed the WTC within six weeks of Clinton taking office.

Now you might argue that Clinton failed to clean up the disaster that Reagan-Bush created, but one of the towers would have likely been destroyed if the truck had been parked closer to the column.

But Bush made 911 a lot worse that it was, and 3000 killed violently isn't a big deal. That happens every 4-5 months and no one gets upset in the Republican party.

In fact, a massacre like the one this week at the Jewish school hardly evokes and calls for action, other that to make it the rules in the US like those in Israel: students and teachers are encouraged to carry guns, which probably made it easier to carry the weapons into the Israeli school to start killing.

So, clearly, you don't care that 3000 people died. Nor do you care that more than 3000 died chasing ghosts in Iraq, because their just dumb soldiers, and thankfully they are dead. Now the 100,000 soldier who have suffered wounds in body and soul, you really wish they had died, because they will cost you in taxes for decades.

The Bush over-reaction to 911 was what drove up the costs. When the Murrow Building was bombed, Clinton didn't shutdown the nation, nor did he shutdown the nation when the WTC was bombed.

Quoting a retrospective report prepared by Congress:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL31617.pdf

Katrina caused more economic damage than 911 because of the loss of capital and opportunity cost.

And Iraq had as much to do with Katrina as with 911.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom1 View Post
Try looking in West Virginia, 'specially in the hollers.
And two dumb Cuntbillies mulp and peaches. What a bunch of shit mulp.
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