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07-19-2007, 12:30 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 3,192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Realist1
Be our guest Heck. Think of something that works, and you'll have the World beating on your door.
And no,,,a pair of roller blades just won't cut it.... 
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There are many alternatives, hydrogen, etc to replace oil.
It requires a program similar to the space program of the 60's.
Oh, and it also requires getting our country back from the corporations and other entities that have bought DC
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"If you're going to tell people the truth, be funny or they'll kill you." -- Billy Wilder
"Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied." -- Otto Von Bismark
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07-19-2007, 02:35 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heckler
There are many alternatives, hydrogen, etc to replace oil.
It requires a program similar to the space program of the 60's.
Oh, and it also requires getting our country back from the corporations and other entities that have bought DC
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There are alternatives, but those corporations you speak of are going to have to play a vital role in developing some of the alternatives. For example, for ethanol to be a viable source that is affordable the oil companies are in the best position to make it both of these things. The infraccstructure is already in place. If they do not do it on their own then the government can push companies into developing the alternatives through various incentives. To me, this is more an issue of national security and besides lowering dependence on foreign sources, it puts American companies out front and more competitive with foreign companies. It is good for all Americans when that happens.
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07-19-2007, 03:31 PM
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Political Guru
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 597
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Regardless of what alternative fuels are being developed, this country will be reliant on oil for at least 20 years, so, it is still in our best interest to drill here in the US. Business can not afford to just convert all current oil based resources to another, neither can government or even private citizens. Think on a small scale, most households have 2 vehicles, probably $50K to replace them. Heat with natural gas or oil? $4 to 6K to replace that system. When the reliable, sustainable energy source becomes apparent, it will take 20 years before it is completely implemented.
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64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule it.
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07-19-2007, 03:49 PM
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Political Guru
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom1
There are alternatives, but those corporations you speak of are going to have to play a vital role in developing some of the alternatives. For example, for ethanol to be a viable source that is affordable the oil companies are in the best position to make it both of these things. The infraccstructure is already in place. If they do not do it on their own then the government can push companies into developing the alternatives through various incentives. To me, this is more an issue of national security and besides lowering dependence on foreign sources, it puts American companies out front and more competitive with foreign companies. It is good for all Americans when that happens.
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Ethanol will never be a viable alternative for the masses. As of today, the US is the largest producer of ethanol. That production accounts for less than 1% of the current fuel demand of the US. In order to ramp up production to the point where it could become a viable alternative, more than 600 Million acres of additional land would need to be plowed, irrigated and planted. That is almost double the amount of current agricultural property that exists today. It sounds good as a environmentalist talking point, but is not realistic.
The problem with most of the alternative energy sources is that they require huge areas to be dedicated to them. Solar and wind energy would require more land than ethanol production to supply the electricity needs of the US. It just isn't feasible.
Nuclear energy is a big no no among the environmentalist, but it is a very viable option for meeting the energy needs of this country. People are always worrying about a spill or such nonsense, but that is propaganda, again from the environmentalists. The only major accident involving nuclear power is Chernobyl, and that was soviet engineering at it's finest. People always point to three mile island as a catastrophe. Nobody died. No radiation left the facility. The one knock on nuclear power has been that the spent fuel rods have to be stored somewhere pretty much forever. Technology in the nuclear field has progressed, there are now reactors that consume the spent fuel rods, eliminating the need to store them. Clean, reliable, abundant power available, why don't we use it? Environmentalists.
The environmentalist movement is really a movement to decrease the population of the world. Their actions are all designed to hinder progress and drive cost up, all the while preventing a move to a cleaner environment.
Wind generators off Cape Cod, blocked by environmentalists
Solar power for the city of los angeles, blocked by environmentalists
Nuclear power throughout the US, blocked by environmentalists
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64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule it.
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07-19-2007, 03:58 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
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Ethanol is a terrible idea and one that is already causing problems in a wide range of areas. Corn is a food product. Using corn to produce fuel is a very bad idea. The cost of corn has already more than doubled per bushel. That means an increased cost to hog farmers driving up the cost of pork. People who eat a lot of tortillas as a main staple of their diet are already being punished and driven farther into poverty.
Anything that is a product of farms is in a delicate place. If it rains too much....no corn. If it doesn't rain enough....no corn. Lightning fires burn crops.
No, no ethanol...BAD idea.
Let's focus on hydrogen.
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Most of the world's crises can be tracked back to the fact that WE HAVE TOO MANY LAWYERS.
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Without women, money would have no meaning......Aristotle Onassis.
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07-19-2007, 04:06 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: mountains of East TN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SydneySteel
Ethanol is a terrible idea and one that is already causing problems in a wide range of areas. Corn is a food product. Using corn to produce fuel is a very bad idea. The cost of corn has already more than doubled per bushel. That means an increased cost to hog farmers driving up the cost of pork. People who eat a lot of tortillas as a main staple of their diet are already being punished and driven farther into poverty.
Anything that is a product of farms is in a delicate place. If it rains too much....no corn. If it doesn't rain enough....no corn. Lightning fires burn crops.
No, no ethanol...BAD idea.
Let's focus on hydrogen.
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I will agree that ethanol is just another pipe dream like wind power or solar power. It sounds good but just won't work.
I think the same is true of hydrogen. Where is most of the hydrogen on the earth? It's part of the chemical compound hydrogen dioxide, otherwise known as WATER. So, how do we get the hydrogen out of the water? That takes energy, more energy than will be produced by the hydrogen once its released.
Right now, the single most effective energy source is one that sends the environmental wackos into hizzy fits, and that of course is nuclear. It has been proven repeatedly by France for example that nuclear power is safe and infinite.
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Its better to have fussed and crabbed then never to have fussed at all - Lucy
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07-19-2007, 04:12 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45
I will agree that ethanol is just another pipe dream like wind power or solar power. It sounds good but just won't work.
I think the same is true of hydrogen. Where is most of the hydrogen on the earth? It's part of the chemical compound hydrogen dioxide, otherwise known as WATER. So, how do we get the hydrogen out of the water? That takes energy, more energy than will be produced by the hydrogen once its released.
Right now, the single most effective energy source is one that sends the environmental wackos into hizzy fits, and that of course is nuclear. It has been proven repeatedly by France for example that nuclear power is safe and infinite.
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Back in the 70's there was a popular book making the environmentalist round called "Nuclear Madness" by Helen Caldicott. Ms. Caldicott, an Australian, believed that ANY nuclear reactor was nothing more than a time bomb which had the capacity to end all life on the planet. Some of my old liberal friends from those days still revere the book, and Ms. Caldicott and would have absolute FITS is we set about trying to build more reactors. Ms.C. said that using nuclear energy to heat water was equivalent to using a chain saw to cut butter. Other things in the book were even more inflammatory.
__________________
Most of the world's crises can be tracked back to the fact that WE HAVE TOO MANY LAWYERS.
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Without women, money would have no meaning......Aristotle Onassis.
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07-19-2007, 05:36 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 3,192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom1
There are alternatives, but those corporations you speak of are going to have to play a vital role in developing some of the alternatives. For example, for ethanol to be a viable source that is affordable the oil companies are in the best position to make it both of these things. The infraccstructure is already in place. If they do not do it on their own then the government can push companies into developing the alternatives through various incentives. To me, this is more an issue of national security and besides lowering dependence on foreign sources, it puts American companies out front and more competitive with foreign companies. It is good for all Americans when that happens.
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Just like in the 60's when Boeing and others were enlisted in the space program. Sure.
But currently we have nothing like that. Instead we have had endless administrations from both parties that have done nothing real about alternative energy.
It won't be cheap and it won't be easy.
__________________
"If you're going to tell people the truth, be funny or they'll kill you." -- Billy Wilder
"Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied." -- Otto Von Bismark
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07-19-2007, 07:46 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,108
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"but the environmentlists get in a tizzy if anyone suggests drilling for it."
>>>So does Jeb Bush.
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07-19-2007, 07:49 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heckler
Well, I consider myself an environmentalist.
I agree we need to work with current reality. It is even MORE imperative we do something NOW than it was 20 years ago.
It is going to continue to cost more for oil. Implement a real alternative energy program now.
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>>>We have a 200-year supply of natural gas under our feet. My father-in-law converted his 460 ci Ford truck to run on propane. No problem.
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