True economic cost of one gallon ...

T_Ereponemos · #11 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008, 04:23 PM

Where can I find video of this hearing?

Oh and the Reps voted and won in a landslide victory a couple weeks ago to sue OPEC, enough to not allow George to veto, I just hope the senate isn't planning on a filibuster.

If curious see this:
Congress takes step towards Opec legal challenge - Times Online

Commissioner · #12 (**permalink**) 06-06-2008, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George O Well

>>>I watched about an hour of C-Span's coverage on the Senate's investigation yesterday. That's my source.

And no, it's not based on current market conditions. You have Lehman Brothers, Morgan-Stanley, etc. buying up huge quantities of oil on 6% margins, which they couldn't have done before de-regulation in 2000. Not only that, because the investment banks have fucked up every other market, oil is about the only place left to put their cash, creating a bidding war. Morgan-Stanley is now the largest owner of heating oil in the northeast.

But if the true cost of a gallon of gas in your tank is $2.20, and that price includes drilling, shipping, refining and mark-up at the pump, everything above that HAS to be the result of speculation, right? We've NEVER had "built in" speculation prices that high. EVER.

How did you manage that? What, did you put Barney on TIVO?

wvpeach · #13 (**permalink**) 06-06-2008, 10:26 AM

100% true george . I watched the same hearings.

All this Reaganomics and deregulation is the real problem. Bush and his heritage foundation economic plans are about to drive us into bankruptcy with their continuation of Reagans policies. Clinton is their paid hack to he is nothing but a political whore for sale to the one with the most money.

Strange thing is anybody with a little sense should have seen this coming. Guess the US has a lot of stupid people in it that is proven by the Bush voters who have election after election voted against their own economic interests.

People are nuts and when the economy crashes we will all feel the pain along with the nuts who voted for this for the last 20 plus years.

But I am ready I can feed myself and several others and not depend on this economy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by George O Well

>>>I watched about an hour of C-Span's coverage on the Senate's investigation yesterday. That's my source.

And no, it's not based on current market conditions. You have Lehman Brothers, Morgan-Stanley, etc. buying up huge quantities of oil on 6% margins, which they couldn't have done before de-regulation in 2000. Not only that, because the investment banks have fucked up every other market, oil is about the only place left to put their cash, creating a bidding war. Morgan-Stanley is now the largest owner of heating oil in the northeast.

But if the true cost of a gallon of gas in your tank is $2.20, and that price includes drilling, shipping, refining and mark-up at the pump, everything above that HAS to be the result of speculation, right? We've NEVER had "built in" speculation prices that high. EVER.

TakuanSoho · #14 (**permalink**) 06-06-2008, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wvpeach

100% true george . I watched the same hearings.

All this Reaganomics and deregulation is the real problem.

Yeah, damn that near 27 year stretch of robust growth (save for three extremely minor and even barely countable recessions).

wvpeach · #15 (**permalink**) 06-06-2008, 10:30 AM

Again 100% true.

Economists and the GAO were saying at the hearings the other day that energy futures need to be tied to assets more at the level that is required for other margins. That would slow some of this speculation and profiteering down.

Problem is the Republicans have created some loop holes where they can run this all through dubai and not answer to American regulation or margin calls of any kind.

The Republicans like that funny money it pads their pockets and when the bubble busts they of course will not be the ones holding the bag it will be small 401 k accounts and mutual fund investors that will take this hit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by justme

Alright. First an historic admission. For the first time ever, an internet user, me, is going to admit to not being a finacial whiz and not pretending to know everything there is to know about everything!

I did read or hear something lately about the oil speculators only having to have %15 of the cash needed where other commodities require somewhere closer to %50. In effect allowing the oil prices to be inflated with very little risk on the part of the speculators.
I can see where this hurts and ,if true, wonder why it is that way.

wvpeach · #16 (**permalink**) 06-06-2008, 10:33 AM

Lassie you have done my heart good. It is nice to know so many people are actually watching cspan and starting to learn just how bad all this deregulation and globalization being pushed by the Republicans and other traitors in washington really is.

You explained this well lassie that is exactly what I heard as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lassie

Hi George,
I watched the same C-span hearing and was amazed at how much we don't know about the costs of oil and how the money flows.
From what I gather from the experts its 40- 40- 40 split. 40 percent goes to the actual cost 40 percent to the oil cartell and 40 percent to the speculators. How they arrived at those figures, I don't know.
The Enron loophole law passed in 2000 did away with regulating the speculators as we have for the last 78 years up until 2000. This law passed in 200 deregulated the market for speculators so many have set up abroad with no rules and no oversight. Instead of the the government being able to regulate a bad speculator easily, The government has to prove that a company needs regulating instead of the other way around. Only one company in 1000 has been regulated because of this burdensome law that makes it hard for the government to do proper oversight and regulation.
The companies like morgan-stanley are hording the gas and controlling prices and have set up shop in dubye and England to make it harder for oversight.
Get rid of the Enron loophole. It would bring down our gas prices 25%
This hearing was really good. It explained why we have such a drastic rise in gas prices.

wvpeach · #17 (**permalink**) 06-06-2008, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TakuanSoho

Yeah, damn that near 27 year stretch of robust growth (save for three extremely minor and even barely countable recessions).

Hush up you robotic neo con. The people you have voted for are trying to destroy America as we know it and people like you still have the nerve to hide your head in the sand and act like deregulation and free markets reaganomics is the answer to everything.

Well guess what Soho? If we come out the other side of this economic collapse the people you voted for have planned and are still in tact as a nation the history books will state that America proved that unchecked deregulated capitalism never works and was the downfall of the best nation on earth.

Its a shame because a little knowledge of history should have told people this without the nation having to go through the storm and pain that the neo cons have forced upon us.

Then again if we didn't have so many sheep like you Soho willing to vote against their own economic interests to follow the Bush's and Tom delays of this world we would not be facing the mess we are in now either.

TakuanSoho · #18 (**permalink**) 06-06-2008, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wvpeach

Hush up you robotic neo con. The people you have voted for are trying to destroy America as we know it and people like you still have the nerve to hide your head in the sand and act like deregulation and free markets reaganomics is the answer to everything.

Well guess what Soho? If we come out the other side of this economic collapse the people you voted for have planned and are still in tact as a nation the history books will state that America proved that unchecked deregulated capitalism never works and was the downfall of the best nation on earth.

Its a shame because a little knowledge of history should have told people this without the nation having to go through the storm and pain that the neo cons have forced upon us.

Then again if we didn't have so many sheep like you Soho willing to vote against their own economic interests to follow the Bush's and Tom delays of this world we would not be facing the mess we are in now either.

Oh dear god, put a cork in it. You idiots said the same thing during the Reagan era. Frankly I find your excessive need to run around like chicken little bordering on pathological. You all don't even believe your rants, because your actions don't follow your words. You are like environmentalists that pushing ethanol, even though ethanol is multiple times worse for the environment.

If you had any brains you could make valid deadly attacks on things that Bush has done wrong (and there are quite a list), but you are too stupid and insane to do that. Rather than rationally attack Bush, you sputter like some rabid dog whatever insanities you pick up on the internet. Like all weak minded people you need conspiracy and dooms day scenarios rather than actually understand an argument that could achieve your stated goals. But then again if you COULD understand that you are your own sides worse enemy, then you wouldn't be such a weak minded nut.

wvpeach · #19 (**permalink**) 06-06-2008, 10:59 AM

No you cork it you liar. You presented yourself to this forum as a open minded person. When in reality your nothing but a idiotic neo con sheep like Sean Hannity.

Reganomics history proves does not work. I voted for that bad man his first term because my pastor told us he was the godly candidate. Bull crap and I told the pastor that exactly. Godly men do not ignore history and advocate trickle down economics because 1700 years of recorded history of man kind and a 100 years of history in the US proves that trickle down economics just ends up with a whole lot of people in poverty and a very few who own everything and have a lot of money.

People don't even have to read a history book the bible would tell them this. Read the story of Joesph in the bible sometime Soho why don't you?
Its people like you Soho who have mindlessly voted for this crap for the last 20 plus years that are responsible when this countries economy comes tumbling down. Traitors and idiots is what I call people like you.

If the world lasts a while longer deregulators, free market pushers and trickle down reagonomics pushers like you will be shown in the history books of this once great nation to be the idiots and traitors to this country you are.

lassie · #20 (**permalink**) 06-06-2008, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wvpeach

Lassie you have done my heart good. It is nice to know so many people are actually watching cspan and starting to learn just how bad all this deregulation and globalization being pushed by the Republicans and other traitors in washington really is.

You explained this well lassie that is exactly what I heard as well.

Thanks Peach,
I need to clarify that 40-40-40 percent split was based on 120 dollar barrel of oil. The Enron loophole law was put in the farm bill( A middle of the night insert job) by Senator Grassley I think.