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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2008, 11:09 PM
areyoushittin'me?'s Avatar
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Originally Posted by DammitBoy! View Post
It's not meant to be a sole supply of oil. All we should be considering is can it help eliminate the 12% of our oil that comes from the mid-east.

That's step one. Get rid of mideast oil importation through alternate venues.

While working on every other alternative energy source and system.

And anwar isn't the only viable field out there - the bakken fields and others would help eliminate our dependence on arab oil.
I understand it wouldn't be our only source of supply...I merely use that figure to point out that the argument that "It's all the environmentalists fault" is not an argument based in reality, furthermore, not only would it take a long time to get the oil online, it would go into the world market.

Alternatives are the way to go...oil has so many other uses besides carting our sorry asses around producing smog.
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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2008, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by areyoushittin'me? View Post
I understand it wouldn't be our only source of supply...I merely use that figure to point out that the argument that "It's all the environmentalists fault" is not an argument based in reality, furthermore, not only would it take a long time to get the oil online, it would go into the world market.

Alternatives are the way to go...oil has so many other uses besides carting our sorry asses around producing smog.
Laughs! Relying on fossil fuels will likely make us the same....

It's obvious a different approach is needed.
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2008, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by CrankyYankee View Post
Laughs! Relying on fossil fuels will likely make us the same....

It's obvious a different approach is needed.
While drilling and exploration here will not likely end our need for import oil,it will be a repreive and and give us more pull on world prices when we can
choose when and if to buy oil from the middle east.though it might be too late.We need alternative fuels but what about the here and now.The American economy is deeply dependant
on our mobiltyand reasonable fuel prices.Oil is again used for so many things,and developing other means of powering our vehicles while necessary
seems so far away.When the switch is finally made to hydrogen/electric, etc
you can bet the oil companies will be all right with the old cars running on
$6-7 gal gas
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2008, 09:25 AM
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Oil is fungible, so it doesn't matter where the US gets its oil...
If you'd like to see us out of the middle east and it's fucked up politics, we have to eliminate our importation of mideast oil.
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2008, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by DammitBoy! View Post
If you'd like to see us out of the middle east and it's fucked up politics, we have to eliminate our importation of mideast oil.
No, we must eliminate oil imports, but that isn't possible by merely drilling for more oil in US territory. The only possible solution is to move to a sustainable energy economy which means deriving all power needs from either solar or geothermal.

While conservative talk about nuclear being all or part of the solution, they fail to admit that they don't know how to make nuclear happen any time in the next two decades. The refuse to recognize that the physical world is a lot different from pushing money around and selling no doc loans in order to get rich. Nuclear power plants actually require highly skilled people and massive capital investments in infrastructure and time to do R&D, which can't really start until an education system is in place to produce the scientist and engineers.

So, the simple solutions are things like wind generators and solar heat collectors and in a decade putting solar PV on every roof top that isn't covered with ground cover and meadow lands. And the simple solutions of building houses and building to be highly energy efficient so they require very little oil and gas to heat them, and little electricity to cool them.

The real key to solar and geothermal and PV and energy efficiency is that each one will be done millions of time each year so you have a really dynamic market for the technologies and the people who do the work, so collectively the natural search for easier ways to do things and the quest for profit by being cheaper and the competition will cause small improvements to be done each week. After five years, there have been a couple of hundred refinements incorporated and tested millions of times so it is clear that progress is being made.

It seems impossible that the state of the art for solar and geothermal and construction and so on can be radically changed in two decades, but then again, two decades ago only a handful of people could imagine the internet and all the applications and all the users that make up the internet today.

Along the way, you can point to no single quantum leap in technology that if it weren't discovered would have prevented the internet from existing as it does today. In fact, you can't identify 100 inventions over the past quarter century that if deleted would have prevented the internet from existing today.

The idea that drilling for oil everywhere or building nuclear power plants is the path to success is to argue that the Soviet Union proves that central planning by politicians is the best solution to economic growth and technology leadership.
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 05:30 PM
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While conservative talk about nuclear being all or part of the solution, they fail to admit that they don't know how to make nuclear happen any time in the next two decades. Nuclear power plants actually require highly skilled people and massive capital investments in infrastructure and time to do R&D, which can't really start until an education system is in place to produce the scientist and engineers.
Dude, if the French can do it, anybody can - and if not, hire the French to build them.

We can get all the engineers and scientists we need if we prioritized our immigration policies.
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