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09-24-2007, 05:04 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mid-south
Posts: 12,078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom1
The reason for the threatened veto is because the bill extends to children of parents who are hardly in the poor category. The Dems KNEW the bill as written would get vetoed and that is why they tried to push it forward. They had no intention of this bill ever passing because they were adding many people to the coverage who have no problem with obtaining and paying for health insurance in the first place. Find out who would be covered from the bill before making and false assumptions.
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This sure was not the justification Bush gave in his address, he gave the weak excuse about 'raising taxes'...to me that goes over into the Bush lies column again because he implied that FEDERAL INCOME taxes would go up. He mentioned nothing about a cigarette tax funding this. I am also not sure how this could be a 'Democtratic tactic' when the bill has bi-partisan support.
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09-24-2007, 07:00 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,221
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God forbid he veto’s something with the word kids in it. Nice to know he finally learned how to use that veto pen, keep it up George your learning 
__________________
"If capitalism had never existed, any honest humanitarian should have been struggling to invent it. But when you see men struggling to evade its existence, to misrepresent its nature, and to destroy its last remnants - you may be sure that whatever their motives, love for man is not one of them." - Ayn Rand, Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal
Coyote Blog
New Law Trashes Genetic Science
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09-24-2007, 08:36 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 pound gorilla
The scope of the program was to help poor children get healthcare. But many believed that this was just an in to further pursue the logic of socialized healthcare. This would not be the first time a government program tranformed from a little program to a 10 pound gorilla.
First step is to start the program under the pretense it is for the poor children.
Second step is to expand the program to include most middle class children.
Third step is to include all children in the program.
Fourh step well there may not be a need for a fourth step. Once you get enough of the polpulance on government healthcare. They will soon demand it once they reach Voting age and above..
Talk about legislative atrition.....
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Well Reagan sold us Corporate unregulated Healthcare back in the 80's....and now you have 47 million w/o health insurance. America has given coporate dominiated induced health care a chance to work over the last 27 years and it just hasn't added up for 47 million people.
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AMERICA LAND OF THE FREE HOME OF THE BRAVE--BECAUSE OF OUR CONSTITUTION.
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09-24-2007, 08:42 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom1
They were combining one and two together because they knew it would be vetoed. They could have passed it if they just focused on poor kids. Politics was more important to them in this case.
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Dom1, first of all "Fuck-Bush"!!!! he only cares about the wealthy. The current deregulated corporate fascist health care system has left over 47 million people uninsured. Reagan's Corporate unregulated health care and health insurance boondoggle only makes the providers richer while making decent health care unaffordable for he masses.
Go-ahead Dom1, start your rationalization and spin dance....I can't wait to see it!!! 
__________________
AMERICA LAND OF THE FREE HOME OF THE BRAVE--BECAUSE OF OUR CONSTITUTION.
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09-24-2007, 08:44 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RASTAMAN
Well Reagan sold us Corporate unregulated Healthcare back in the 80's
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No he didn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RASTAMAN
....and now you have 47 million w/o health insurance. America has given coporate dominiated induced health care a chance to work over the last 27 years and it just hasn't added up for 47 million people.
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But who are these 47 million Americans?
__________________
"If capitalism had never existed, any honest humanitarian should have been struggling to invent it. But when you see men struggling to evade its existence, to misrepresent its nature, and to destroy its last remnants - you may be sure that whatever their motives, love for man is not one of them." - Ayn Rand, Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal
Coyote Blog
New Law Trashes Genetic Science
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09-24-2007, 09:02 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Born in NY, Livin in Chi' town
Posts: 1,766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyote
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Oh well...Now that we have seen a propaganda film that reminds us that the poor can get their primary care from an ER, that proves three people in America could afford their own insurance, that if you are totally impoverished you can get Medicaid, and LIES about SRs opting out of Medicare being part of the 47 million, that solves that problem huh ?
Get a clue
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"You work three jobs? … Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that is fantastic that you're doing that."
GW Bush
So let me get this straight....Global warming is junk science, but creationism is biology ?
The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
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09-24-2007, 09:16 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: West Virginia ( Gods Country)
Posts: 6,590
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Well the you tube video missed all the uninsured I know
Coyote the you tube video missed all the uninsured I know.
Like the older men who have worked thirty years for a factory only to be told the company is bankrupt and closing it's doors. They lose their retirement, health insurance and cannot find a job at say 55-62 years old.Then the company reopens under another name but the retirement and insurance is still gone.
The you tube video did not include all those who's company has left the states and find themself's out of work.
Or the family with two working parents making about $10 a hour each with two kids who cannot afford the premiums.
Your you tube video left out a lot of people . sure young people take the risk of no insurance but lots of older people through no choice of their own find themselves without insurance too.
And they are dying for lack of care, does that sit okay with you?
Pray a loved one of yours does not come down with cancer while temporarily uninsured because their employer left the US for a third world country. Once they have been diagnosed they cannot get insurance even if they luck into another good job. It's a pre existing condition says the insurance company. They should make people who feel like you walk in the shoes of the mom and dad who are stuck in dead end jobs because their child is a diabetic and if they left their current employer their child could not be insured else where. They pray every day now that their company doesn't decide to jump ship and relocate to a third world country.
The system needs fixed and health insurance companies need to go.And there except for the grace of God goes people like you coyote. Problem is in this country it looks like the problem will not get fixed till 1/2 the population has no medical care and then the system will be over whelmed and the problem much harder to deal with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coyote
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09-25-2007, 10:15 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat's meow
This sure was not the justification Bush gave in his address, he gave the weak excuse about 'raising taxes'...to me that goes over into the Bush lies column again because he implied that FEDERAL INCOME taxes would go up. He mentioned nothing about a cigarette tax funding this. I am also not sure how this could be a 'Democtratic tactic' when the bill has bi-partisan support.
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It did have a few Republicans vote for it, but not enough to overide a veto, so much bi-partisan support are you claiming?
The Democrats knew it was going to get vetoed because they included many people who do not or should not have a problem paying for their kids health care.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RASTAMAN
Dom1, first of all "Fuck-Bush"!!!! he only cares about the wealthy. The current deregulated corporate fascist health care system has left over 47 million people uninsured. Reagan's Corporate unregulated health care and health insurance boondoggle only makes the providers richer while making decent health care unaffordable for he masses.
Go-ahead Dom1, start your rationalization and spin dance....I can't wait to see it!!! 
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No spin dumbfuck. A person who makes 82K a year should be able to pay for his/her child's health care. In fact, that person most likely has a job in which they are paying discounted rates for their child's health care anyway. If you think that people who make 82K a year need help from the government in paying for their children then where do you draw the line? Can't wait for your response Rasta. Maybe you should research these things before you ever make comments.
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09-25-2007, 10:22 AM
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Political Junkie
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Liberal Paradise...Illinois
Posts: 279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat's meow
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That "insurance plan" also covers "kids" up to 25 years old. Anyone who pays attention to the committe hearings would understand this. I glad to hear he will veto it. It would definately be one of the better parts of his Presidency.
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09-25-2007, 11:30 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clholloway20
That "insurance plan" also covers "kids" up to 25 years old. Anyone who pays attention to the committe hearings would understand this. I glad to hear he will veto it. It would definately be one of the better parts of his Presidency.
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I am glad you posted that. I forgot to mention that part. Even the Democratic pundits on television were talking about this part of the bill which the Dems in Congress knew would cause a veto. They could have passed a bill had they kept it for poor kids under 18, but they had to expand it so they could score some political points. So, is the veto the bad thing or the Dems being willing to play politics with health care for poor children?
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