Aristotle: Happiness

Politicon · #11 (**permalink**) 10-06-2006, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken.e

Because right action leads to well-Being

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought Socrates said more about that type of stuff than Plato.

ken.e · #12 (**permalink**) 10-06-2006, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Politicon

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought Socrates said more about that type of stuff than Plato.

Yes but that was Platos main contibution, telling us what Socrates said

Politicon · #13 (**permalink**) 10-06-2006, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken.e

Yes but that was Platos main contibution, telling us what Socrates said

hehehehe. I guess I can't argue with that one!

Roman · #14 (**permalink**) 10-06-2006, 12:24 AM

Doesn't aristotle speak of materialistic things making one happy such as looks, fitness, intelligence, wit, status, possessions? I could be wrong here Cat, if I am please forgive me, haven't updated my philosophy in while but when I get time..

Personally, I like Haslow's need for hierarchy, with self-fulfillment being the ultimate stage. To me self-fulfillment would likely mean happiness.

I do think spirituality does play a role. I heard a guy say that being in this physical realm where are not as close to source (God) and that creates an emptiness which can only be temporarily filled until we start finding our way back to source. This makes sense, I never met someone that has never had that feeling no matter how succesful. Also, you see many who indulge themselves with materialistic things but are never staisifed.

Are we never satisfied because we have not found our way to source (God)?

You see it everywhere in the world around us, everyone craves for superficial things. Then you look and see some like Buddhist, who are content with what they have, don't bother hurting others, and are focused on their path.

Areyouforreal · #15 (**permalink**) 10-06-2006, 12:40 AM

Ecclesiastes 2:26
26 To the man who pleases him, God gives wisdom, knowledge and happiness, but to the sinner he gives the task of gathering and storing up wealth to hand it over to the one who pleases God. This too is meaningless, a chasing after the wind.

Proverbs 10:1
1 The proverbs of Solomon:
A wise son brings joy to his father,
but a foolish son grief to his mother.

Proverbs 10:28
28 The prospect of the righteous is joy,
but the hopes of the wicked come to nothing.

monkeyinthemiddle · #16 (**permalink**) 10-06-2006, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cat's meow

One of the things that Aristotle talks about during this 'argument' is Happiness is relative to a certain extent. So, is man truly 'happy' when he is dead?

I have always thought that is interesting...he is in no talking about or endorsing suicide, etc...

What do you think about that?

Aristotle:
""Self-love accordingly may be said to be the highest law of morals, because while such self-love may be understood as the selfishness which gratifies a person's lower nature, it may also be, and is rightly, the love of that higher and rational nature which constitutes each person's true self.
Such a life of thought is further recommended as that which is most pleasant, most self-sufficient, most continuous, and most consonant with our purpose.
It is also that which is most akin to the life of God: for God cannot be conceived as practising the ordinary moral virtues and must therefore find his happiness in contemplation""

I think this is an answer to your question.
Man is truly happy when he loves himself!

cat's meow · #17 (**permalink**) 10-06-2006, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken.e

Because right action leads to well-Being

How is Plato different than Aristotle? As his student doesn't he just expand on Plato and give more detail is the 'code' of human ethics this commentary on achieving happiness is taken from?

cat's meow · #18 (**permalink**) 10-06-2006, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeyinthemiddle

Aristotle:
""Self-love accordingly may be said to be the highest law of morals, because while such self-love may be understood as the selfishness which gratifies a person's lower nature, it may also be, and is rightly, the love of that higher and rational nature which constitutes each person's true self.
Such a life of thought is further recommended as that which is most pleasant, most self-sufficient, most continuous, and most consonant with our purpose.
It is also that which is most akin to the life of God: for God cannot be conceived as practising the ordinary moral virtues and must therefore find his happiness in contemplation""

I think this is an answer to your question.
Man is truly happy when he loves himself!

This is a good passage but how does it line up with the following passages, does he contradict himself in anyway(?):

Quote:

1.81
Happiness is acquired by virtue, and hence by our own actions...

1.82
Virtue is a stable and controlling element in happiness...

...it is the activities expressing virtue that control happiness, and the contrary activities that control its contrary.

1.91
An account of happiness requires an account of virtue

Since happiness is an activity of the soul expressing complete virtue, we must examine virtue...

1.92
A discussion of virtue requires a discussion of the soul...

And by human virtue we mean virtue of the soul, not of the body, since we also say that happiness is an activity of the soul.

BTW, I have to add this little nugget...we all bitch about politicians from both left and right having no core or virtue...and look what we find right in the middle of the passeges about happiness and virtue (LOL)

Quote:

1.92 (21)

...This is all the more true to the extent that political science is better and more honorable than medicine-and even amoung doctors the cultivated ones devote a lot of effort to acquiring knowledge about the body. Hence the politician as well (as the student of nature) must study the soul.
But he must study it for the purpose (of inquiring into virtue)...

I take this as our politicians need to REALLY understand what virtue is in the context of happiness. The guy knew it then in 350 AD.

cat's meow · #19 (**permalink**) 10-06-2006, 02:38 AM

Roman and AYFR...with what you have both mentioned and given passages for...

What do you think of this one, what does he mean? A pre-dates Jesus Christ by 300 years...

Quote:

1.81

Is Happiness a gift from the Gods?
First, then, if the Gods give any gift at all to human beings, it is reasonable for them to give happiness also; indeed, it is reasonable more than any other human (good), in so for as it is the best of human (goods).

cat's meow · #20 (**permalink**) 10-06-2006, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roman

Doesn't aristotle speak of materialistic things making one happy such as looks, fitness, intelligence, wit, status, possessions? I could be wrong here Cat, if I am please forgive me, haven't updated my philosophy in while but when I get time..

Personally, I like Haslow's need for hierarchy, with self-fulfillment being the ultimate stage. To me self-fulfillment would likely mean happiness.

I do think spirituality does play a role. I heard a guy say that being in this physical realm where are not as close to source (God) and that creates an emptiness which can only be temporarily filled until we start finding our way back to source. This makes sense, I never met someone that has never had that feeling no matter how succesful. Also, you see many who indulge themselves with materialistic things but are never staisifed.

Are we never satisfied because we have not found our way to source (God)?

You see it everywhere in the world around us, everyone craves for superficial things. Then you look and see some like Buddhist, who are content with what they have, don't bother hurting others, and are focused on their path.

He does in several passages but he creates a lot of questions...I think the later passages on virtue and what is virtuous activity or virtue when speaking of 'human character' helps define this some and what eventually leads to happiness. Yes, in this case the idea of 'success' vs happiness comes into question unless the idea of virtue and character are present.

Roman and AYFR, if you define happiness in that way can an atheist or agnostic find true happiness in its purest form (even at all)? Honestly, I think that is partly why Aristotle brings up the idea of happiness and death possibly being man in his 'happiest' state. He has a funny way of putting that arguing man is happiest in his most 'stable' state (death). He argues at one point stability has a great deal to do with happiness.