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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 07-25-2008, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by wvpeach View Post
Randman is being honest. I applaud that.

However randman is not looking at the entire picture.

I would say that none of us should rest easy while hungry people exist in the world.

But randman , bud, got to hand it to you I admire a man that doesn't try to hide who he is and what he believes.

Seems the country has a majority of people that feel the same way you do now. Maybe you'll get your wish.
I don't rest easy because people are hungry but lets feed our own first. The US gives large amounts of aid to countries that suffer a storm or whatever.
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Old 07-25-2008, 11:17 AM
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Humanities survival requires that the humans are free to act according to their own self interest. Just as animals have to act according to their own self interest. Man is different than other animals in that we have to have a moral code to guide us into promoting our lives. Animals live by instinct. Man lives by rational thought. Humans are the only animals than can actively pursue their own destruction. If a man has an irational philosiphy he can destroy himself and many others. It is irational to tell a person that that they
need to sacrifice their own well being for some imaginary man in the sky or for someone they don't even know. Their is a hierachy of self interest in man kind. You might be willing to help a complete stranger if their was just a small risk to your own well being. You would probably risk a lot more for a close friend. You would probably risk your very life itself for a close family member.
There
should be no coexistance between Capitalism and Socialism. Just as there should be no coexistance between food and rat poison. Man requires Capitalism for prosperity. Religion is in compatable with Conservatism.
No human is entirely rational.

Rand's philosophy only looks at one aspect of humanity, humans have much more involved than pure rational thought....and that is where Randian philosophy fails.

Sorry, but neither capitalism or socialism works very well in a pure state...
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Old 07-25-2008, 11:20 AM
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oh?

give me your list of great civilized nations that aren't western
There aren't any great civilized nations. We're still little better than cave men.

Just take a look around.......
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Old 07-25-2008, 11:27 AM
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Your going to get your wish too Rob.

The entire purpose of Reaganomics was to bust any system of social safety nets in this country.

Each president since him has continued those policies including Clinton.

Its about to come to fruition. Their plan has worked perfectly. THanks to the American voter being gullible to propaganda.

Coming soon, famine and poor people in the streets to a American city near you.

If either of us can afford the internet in the next year or two Rob or dare to get on it. You'll have to let me know if you like what you asked and voted for?

Not being cynical or mean. Just genuinely curious as to how folks who keep voting for the dissolving of the sovereignty of America are going to feel
about it when it actually happens.

But no worries I live around a lot of Bush type voters. I am sure I will get to see their reactions if you and I don't get to talk.
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Old 07-25-2008, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Heckler View Post
No human is entirely rational.

Rand's philosophy only looks at one aspect of humanity, humans have much more involved than pure rational thought....and that is where Randian philosophy fails.

Sorry, but neither capitalism or socialism works very well in a pure state...
NO HUMAN IS RATIONAL??? Speak for yourself. If you said humans are capable of failure I would agree with you. Man lives by rational thought. From everything from building a house to constructing a skyscraper. All of it requires reasoned thought. Socialism stops free and reasoned thought at the point of a gun. Religion uses faith to stop reasoned thought.
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Old 07-25-2008, 02:21 PM
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Wrong O Amazed and deceived one.

The nations will be judged , along side individuals for how we treat the least among us. Read the bible sometime you will see that is true. Or read this thread started by Nathan about welfare and you will see I proved without a shadow of a doubt that nations will be judged for how they treat the least among them.

Keep in mind you should read the whole thread as I was trying to take it easy on Nate at first but then as the holy spirit gave voice he got both barrels as to why we as individuals and as nations were commanded to care for the poor, the sick, the orphans and the elderly. I am not going to waste a lot of my time repeating the same things over to you Amazed because I don't feel called by God to do so. But your free to read the thread. Welfare and the teachings of Christ

Now its a free country Amazed and your free to work against the teachings of Christ. Just as I am free to try to make sure the nation adopts some of Christs teachings.
You didn't, as you never do, deal with the central issue. Compulsion is NOT what God teaches....Compulsion is NOT compassion..and if one does any of the Lord's "Work" with the wrong motives said "Work" is meaningless. You are like many...you do your "Works" to be seen of Men...
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Old 07-25-2008, 03:22 PM
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Your right Amazed it does no good to be forced to do anything. IE doesn't count if your forced into it.

My only concern is that the nations will be judged just like individuals will for how they treated the least among them.

So you go one campaigning that it should be every man , woman and child for themselves Amazed.

I will go on campaigning that the nation adopt a social concept consistent with the teachings of Christ. Because that is my job as a follower of Christ.

If it makes you happy Amazed your side is winning . Indeed it looks like the war is almost lost. Looks like your going to win the country is close to adopting a every man, woman and child for themselves attitude and theology.

That should make you happy Amazed.

Its still my job as a servant of Christ to work against that theology you teach. Christ never said we servants would win the world to our side. In fact scriptures tell me we won't . The world will just get worse and worse with each passing year. But its my job to present the true message of Christ and those who are drawn by God will accept it.

Your side wins Amazed........................................For now! Christ will come back one day and then its a different story.
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Old 07-25-2008, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by randman6031 View Post
NO HUMAN IS RATIONAL??? Speak for yourself. If you said humans are capable of failure I would agree with you. Man lives by rational thought. From everything from building a house to constructing a skyscraper. All of it requires reasoned thought. Socialism stops free and reasoned thought at the point of a gun. Religion uses faith to stop reasoned thought.
That isn't what I said. I said no human is ENTIRELY rational.

All of us have emotions that also affect our actions...and not in a "reasoned" manner.

Respond to what is posted.....not what fits your preconception of what I might say.....
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Old 07-25-2008, 06:25 PM
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Your right Amazed it does no good to be forced to do anything. IE doesn't count if your forced into it.

This has been my entire point Peach.....that, and that those that refuse to work have no right to a free ride.....just as Paul said.
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Old 07-25-2008, 10:07 PM
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Christ said we are to care for the sick, widows , and father less. Paul was talking about able bodied people that won't work.

Or are you conveniently forgetting this scripture Amazed?

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.



He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God. Proverbs 14:31


Deuteronomy
15:7-11.
If there is among you a poor man of your brethren, within any of the gates in your land
which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart nor shut your
hand from your poor brother, but you shall open your hand wide to him and willingly
lend him sufficient for his need, whatever he needs. Beware lest there be a wicked
thought in your heart, saying, “The seventh year, the year of release, is at hand,” and your
eye be evil against your poor brother and you give him nothing, and he cry out to the
LORD against you, and it become sin among you. You shall surely give to him, and your
heart should not be grieved when you give to him, because for this thing the LORD your
God will bless you in all your works and in all to which you put your hand. For the poor
will never cease from the land; therefore I command you, saying, “You shall open your
hand wide to your brother, to your poor and your needy, in your
land.”


Isaiah 10:1, 2 - “Woe to those who decree unrighteous decrees, who write misfortune, which they have prescribed to rob the needy of justice, and to take what is right from the
poor of My people, that widows may be their prey, and that they may rob the fatherless.”








Ezekiel 16:49 - “Look, this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughter had pride, fullness of food, and abundance of idleness; neither did she strengthen the hand of
the poor and needy.”
................Did you catch that Amazed? God destroyed the city of Sodom because she didn't take care of the poor and needy.

Luke 14:12-14 - “Then He also said to him who invited Him, “When you give a dinner or a supper, do not ask your friends, your brothers, your relatives, nor rich neighbors, lest they
also invite you back, and you be repaid. But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the
maimed, the lame, the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you; for
you shall be repaid at the resurrection of the just.”







Luke 19:8 - “Then Zacchaeus stood and said to the Lord, ‘Look, Lord, I give half of my goods to the poor; and if I have taken anything from anyone by false accusation, I restore fourfold.’



Lev 25:35 And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.



Deut 26:12 When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled;
13 Then thou shalt say before the LORD thy God, I have brought away the hallowed things out of mine house, and also have given them unto the Levite, and unto the stranger, to the fatherless, and to the widow, according to all thy commandments which thou hast commanded me: I have not transgressed thy commandments, neither have I forgotten them:



You missed a lot of scriptures about widows, poor, sick and fatherless and how we are to care for them didn't you Amazed?


And these are just a sampling of scriptures the bible is literally full of scripture telling us and nations we must care for the least among us. Want more scriptures Amazed?
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