HOLY CRAP calm down Drogyn. Suburbanite doesn't like the movie becuase it shows rape, violence, etc. Neither do I. I don't watch that stuff and go "neato! that chick just got impaled!". No. That's not me, and I'm sure that's not Suburbanite or many fans of this type of movie.

I don't want to speak for other people, but what I like in this movie is the subtext... what's going on underneath what's literally being depicted. How the characters react to this stuff. What it says about them, and about their values. The scene where one of the filmmakers is smiling at the impaled girl, and his buddy says "careful, I'm filming" and BAM his face goes all serious. The irony and the metaphor. THAT's what makes CH stand out from just your average exploitation flick. There's something else there.

So, in conclusion, get down off your moral pedestal and calm the hell down. If a movie is using shock to prove a point, it doesn't automatically make everyone who watches it a sick freak.

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Politics: Libertarian (Ron Paul '08!)
Religion: Atheist/Flying Spaghetti Monsterism/Led Zep
Stance on Skub: Anti-Skub

Dro you're dumb. Your the reason why "morals" lead to violence. Fucking Christians

I'm an atheist, moron. A militant, die hard atheist. Religion is a sickness of the mind.

As I stated, I haven't seen this movie. I apologise if I was criticizing something out of ignorance.

I don't believe there are excuses for not abhoring such things. However, I can see the validity of appreciating a message about our desire to censure brutality only to avoid being its victim.

And Suburbanite: Structured debate, when moderated, would solve all of the world's problems. Unfortunately, structured, moderated debate in its proper form is an extreme rarity.

It is for this reason that if an opponent acts immorally, and cannot be persuaded to act as he or she should, morals should definately lead to violence. Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum, and all that jazz. I would pick debate over violence any day, but sometimes it just doesn't work like that.

I train every day to be strong. Because I know that at our base, we're animals. I want to ensure that when words lead to blows, I'm the one with the sore knuckles.

Hmm? I thought morals were the creation of religion(s)?

Atheism is a religion ya know...

and who is going to moderate? aka "set rules"? you?

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yeh I got that one and another one is "white slave", that has a whole nuther aspect of so called modern man meets jungle.

In a word CH did a wonderful job illustrating first how thoughtless and downright ignorant some people are, and how absolute power can instantly turn people into psychopaths.

yeah seriously, any atheist who still makes appeals to "morals" missed the boat

Ok, this is getting fucked up.

Sure, religions make a habit of setting morals out for their sheep to follow. This doesn't mean morality is inherently linked to religion, or vice versa.

Morality can (And does) exist quite separately to religion.

And in a moderated debate, a person well versed in the facets of logic ensures that both parties do not use any fallacies in presenting their point.

If the question was about who's going to decide what's right or wrong, then yes, damn right I am.

If not me, then who? Society has proven itself inept for centuries. We should each endeavor to act as we see fit, and encourage others to do the same. And if they act differently, that's fine.

But if they act in a way that your morals (Which each of us has, regardless of religion) tell you is unacceptable, you need to do something about it.

This is the fairest way. It's how I live my life.

And by which twisted, oft-regurgitated, flawed logic are we calling atheism a religion today?

Religion is nothing more than a belief system. Your religion is whatever you choose to believe regardless of its content.

satanism, catholisism, druidism, atheism, all are religions. You could make masterbation into a religion if you wanted too. Whats so shocking about that?


Morality and religion are intrinsically interwoven and inseparable unless you claim you personally have none.

It becomes a logical trap imo to claim you possess one half but not the other.


Oh and the problem with your moderated debate of course is that we all feel we are equally and possibly even more qualified than you are to be the moderators so now what?

Atheism is not a religion. Even by your own definition of religion being a belief system. Specifically religion involves metaphysical assertions, none of which are essential to being an atheist. So, of course, atheism is not a religion, despite the many attempts to describe it as such. Its sort of the your rubber I'm glue argument. Morality is also not an intrinsic part of religion. Morality is a bi-product of the evolution of religions. Originally Hammurabi's Code, the ancient jews converted the concept into the divine laws of the ten commandments, the arch of the holy covenant, and the later the talmud. A jewish reformist, named Jesus, attempted to change law into morality. This is directly where we get out modern understanding of morality from, Jesus. The concept of good and bad became applicable to everything. Suddenly the meek were the ones destined to inherit the earth. And thats all morals are, a house of cards for the weak to rest on.

Oh come on this is patently rediculous. Have you not ever heard of someone worshipping their god "money". While the term religion usually does have metaphysical precepts it does not by definition "require" them to correctly apply an describe it using the term religion.

"Anything" can be a religion. Like I joked earlier even masterbation can be taken to that level.

I never really viewed morality as being divine since I too am an atheist. Morality imo is more the philosophy and jurisprudence of Natural Law that existed as far back as 2500 bc.

An extension of this is the inalienable rights in the constitution.

Atheists have a problem you see. They are stuck using moral precepts that were derived from Natural Law, hence some religion along the way, (mostly egyptian and judaism), and a few other ancient religions that all came to the same conclusions.
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in a world with American pragmatism it doesn't really matter for shit how theists use morality or any other dumb ancient legal system. They can stone each other outside the gates of Jerusalem all day for all I care. but whats the point of your fucking argument except to say that atheism is a religion and thus anything you say bounces off me and sticks to you. Its dumb, and it isn't pragmatic or thought out either. Its USELESS to extend the definition of religion to include things other than religions, except for the rubber glue defense theists try to pull. Otherwise your POINT is POINTLESS!