>>>There are so many things fucked up in those statements that I don't know where to begin, but suffice it to say that religious leaders (all of 'em) make me wanna blow big chunks.

Why are you surprised? They want to defend their right to buy a Porsche using the tithing payments they demand from their followers.

>>>Not surprised. Just a point that needed reiterating.

You are going to go to hell.Maybe a stop in purgatory first!!lol

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I respect your right to have your own opinion,but I do not necessarily respect your opinion.

Hey, organized religion's clergy got a good thing going.

World dominating political power AND truckloads of cash, not to mention some prime real estate too.

And all totally untaxed.

World dominating political power? How do you figure that? Europe has all but become a secular state (or has at least rejected their historical Christian dominance) and the west isn't exactly in line with religious leaders. Is this comment directed more at the Arab world (both Jews and Muslims)?

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"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything." Alexander Hamilton

The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.
Plato

Maybe not world dominating, but surely local. Many 'religious leaders' in this country and others have significant political influence.

Look at the Roman Catholic Church before the Enlightenist Movement. The RC Church still wields as much power as many nations, and their current real estate globally, though certainly not approaching pre-EM quantities, is still formidable.

Look at any TV evangelist today, and the numbers of people they can sway, not to mention the cash they draw in. Crystal Palace anyone?

The pure political power of any centralized Christian religious denomination is certainly, and thankfully, fading, but that doesn't mean their world domination goals have become extinct. Christians still number nearly a third of the world's population after all.

Islam is certainly gaining ground on the Christians, in number and power, and the Jews cetainly have never approached that status. But Christianity, particulary RCers, still dominate the world in pure numbers.

I would agree with you that the Catholic Church in particular still has a huge influence, largely because of the great number of Catholics worldwide, but I think that this power is largely limited, to use a Catholic term, to the faithful. Before the Enlightenist Movement the church definitely wielded a large amount of power in the Papal States (and vast amounts of church lands in other countries), the ability to remove and appoint the Holy Roman Empire, and the right to absolve people of their loyalty to the state. This definitely had a large impact on secular matters and this was made possible because, for the most part, the majority of Europe was Catholic and the West was without significant political leadership after the fall of the Roman Empire (in contrast to the East which remained under Byzantine control for centuries to come). While the RCC is still very rich and is able to influence a vast number of people they no longer have much of a temporal influence as far as politics go (they would never be able to launch another crusade or bring wield the power of the likes of Pope Innocent III).

Religion still has a great impact on people and the power of the Pope, Dr. Dobson, Billy Graham, ect. should not be underestimated but I think that power is mainly confined to those within the church. Of course this can affect the position of the state but in a world were society is becoming more and more secular the impact of these religious leaders is becoming less and less.

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"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything." Alexander Hamilton

The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.
Plato

And to that all I can say is "Thank the Gods!"

Indeed the power of the Church, and individual preachers, is declining, but that simply will not stop the theopolitical motivations of that religion that is built into their very scriptures. The "Christian Reconstructionist Movement" was nearly successful in their bid for a US theocracy recently, however, so one must be watchful for the behind the scenes efforts as well as the hellfire and brimstone types on the "front lines".

And I do hope that this "new enlightenment period" will stunt the up and coming power of the Mosque as well.

When any religion (or political ideal) has too much political power, individual rights, privlages, and equality suffer.