Was Fascism Anti-Collectivist?

TakuanSoho · #31 (**permalink**) 05-29-2008, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sour_claw

Collectivism has benefits if the people have the choice to belong or leave at will, which is a plus for them and Fascism is not too bad if those in charge truly keep the well being of the subjects as their goal. But since humans in general make constant mistakes, there are few systems that are infallible. It is not like I have the answer yet to be sure- I just give my armchair opinion.

If people have a choice to belong or leave at will, then it isn't collectivism, it is cooperation.

In political philosophy "collectivism" refers to any philosophy or system that sees any kind of group (such as a class, nation, race, society, state, etc) as more important than the individual (from Wiki). Choice focuses on the individual.

Now fascism is most certainly "collectivism" it differs from socialism and communism on many different aspects, but not on how it views the individuals relationship with the state.

smart makes a comeback · #32 (**permalink**) 05-30-2008, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TakuanSoho

If people have a choice to belong or leave at will, then it isn't collectivism, it is cooperation.

In political philosophy "collectivism" refers to any philosophy or system that sees any kind of group (such as a class, nation, race, society, state, etc) as more important than the individual (from Wiki). Choice focuses on the individual.

Now fascism is most certainly "collectivism" it differs from socialism and communism on many different aspects, but not on how it views the individuals relationship with the state.

Irrespective of the "Wki" definition, the "collective" is not defined by groups anywhere near as limited as you and WIKI claim.
At least not in the vein in which we are speaking..or should be speaking if you truely want to make the comparison with Marxism

By the way,,,by that definition...you just declared right wing Republicans "collectivists"

Dom1 · #33 (**permalink**) 06-02-2008, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smart makes a comeback

Well...the original question which started this thread, was a babbling idiots quest for attention, and has nothing to do with politics. It was created by DUM1 to try to save face, after his being debunked and verbally humiliated in another thread

Accidently, the lard ass tranny's plea for attention did lead to some decent exchanges between sane folks.

The contention that fascism was a "socialist" or "collectivist" agenda is frequently used by right leaning folks to distence themselves from it...the only problem is,, is does not meet the criteria by any reasonable standard

Wrong fatty, it was started by me because you were dumb enough to insist that the Nazis were anti-collectivists when in fact they, and fascism in general, is collectivist.

You were and still are wrong, the Nazis were collectivists and it does fit in the definition that was previously listed.

Tell me, are you ever going to be able to make an argument without making huge mistakes . . . . . like saying an ideology is the exact opposite of what it really is?

Oh, and fascism and collectivism does indeed have something to do with politics. Stupid.

Dom1 · #34 (**permalink**) 06-02-2008, 03:10 AM

Every collectivist revolution rides in on a Trojan horse of 'emergency'. It was the tactic of Lenin, Hitler, and Mussolini. In the collectivist sweep over a dozen minor countries of Europe, it was the cry of men striving to get on horseback. And 'emergency' became the justification of the subsequent steps. This technique of creating emergency is the greatest achievement that demagoguery attains. - Herbert Hoover

Contemporaries must have viewed it as collectivist also.

Remember the Roman Emperor who said he wished humanity had a single neck so he could cut it? People have laughed at him for centuries. But we'll have the last laugh. We've accomplished what he couldn't accomplish. We've taught men to unite. This makes one neck ready for one leash.

We found the magic word. Collectivism.

Look at Europe, you fool. Can't you see past the guff and recognize the essence?

One country is dedicated to the proposition that man has no rights, that the collective is all. The individual held as evil, the mass — as God. No motive and no virtue permitted — except that of service to the proletariat. That's one version.

Here's another. A country dedicated to the proposition that man has no rights, that the State is all. The individual held as evil, the race — as God. No motive and no virtue permitted — except that of service to the race.

Am I raving or is this the cold reality of two continents already? Watch the pincer movement. If you're sick of one version, we push you into the other. We get you coming and going. We've closed the doors. We've fixed the coin. Heads — collectivism, and tails — collectivism.

Fight the doctrine which slaughters the individual. Give up your soul to a council — or give it up to a leader. But give it up, give it up, give it up.

My technique, Peter. Offer poison as food and poison as antidote. Go fancy on the trimmings, but hang on to the main objective. Give the fools a choice, let them have their fun — but don't forget the only purpose you have to accomplish.

Kill the individual. Kill man's soul.

The rest will follow automatically... - Ellsworth Toohey

Kind of describes Nazi Germany, eh?

Dom1 · #35 (**permalink**) 06-15-2008, 05:05 PM

"Du bist nichts, dein Volk ist alles"

You are nothing, your race is everything.

The Nazis were collectivists, just like Mussolini and his self-proclaimed collectivist movement.

Dom1 · #36 (**permalink**) 06-15-2008, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom1

"Du bist nichts, dein Volk ist alles"

You are nothing, your race is everything.

The Nazis were collectivists, just like Mussolini and his self-proclaimed collectivist movement.

Hmmm . . . . just like what the post below says.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TakuanSoho

If people have a choice to belong or leave at will, then it isn't collectivism, it is cooperation.

In political philosophy "collectivism" refers to any philosophy or system that sees any kind of group (such as a class, nation, race, society, state, etc) as more important than the individual (from Wiki). Choice focuses on the individual.

Now fascism is most certainly "collectivism" it differs from socialism and communism on many different aspects, but not on how it views the individuals relationship with the state.

Any takers on fascism not being collectivist?

Dom1 · #37 (**permalink**) 06-15-2008, 08:57 PM

Yep, fatty makes a huge mistake and runs away rather than address it. Typical.