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05-12-2008, 10:21 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: chapmanville, wv
Posts: 4,723
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Poor old Constantine gets blamed for so many things that he obviously could not have done. The accusations are many but when they are investigated, they, like the source of their gestation simply fall beneath the weight of their lies. He gets credit for having part of the scriptures written, yet we can find no part which does not work in harmony with the other. We are informed that He(Constantine) started the tradition of Sunday worship, yet we are flooded with historical writings that predate Him by two hundred years. When any of accusations are put to the test they simply do not pass the smell test. What we are presented with today are merely "parroted" secular ideas that have been gestated by idiots that have not preformed their historical research in earnest, only looking for straws to grasp at. For the truth about Christianity is as such.
Constantine indeed may have had some influence on certain offshoots of the early Roman Church, but in no way was responsible for creating one word of the Cannonized New Testament, whose copied manuscripts can accurately be dated to have existed from the middle of the first century all the way up until the actual reign of Constantine.
Many claim that the NT was actually written in the Hebrew tongue, but history addresses a completely different finding. The evidence that the NT was originally drafted in the universal language of the lst Century (Greek) is overwhelming. We have over 5300 complete manuscripts (copies of the original) and some 13,000 fragments, all found scripted in the Greek Language. There are another 8000 manuscripts found in Syriac, Armenian, Ethiopic, Coptic, Gothic, Slavic, Sahidic, and Gerogian. But what we do find lacking in any numbers at all are manuscripts in Hebrew. If the scripts were originally drafted in the Hebrew tongue, any reasonable person would hope to find the opposite, the lst and 2nd Centuries would have been flooded with copied examples of the Hebrew, not the inverse.
When "any" document is translated instead of merely copied there are many indicators of such occurrence, and we find none of these indicators in the many validated manuscripts of the NT, thus one can only conclude they were copied from the original....not translated. Every language is unique in the fact of word selection, grammar, and idioms. The "one" thing that most scholars agree on is the fact that the books of the NT show the evidence of being drafted in the "Koine" Greek.
What is truly amazing are the direct quotes found in the NT writings, that can only have been referenced from one source, THE SEPTUAGINT translation of the Old Testament, which has been dated and validated as having been drafted at least somewhere around 200-400 BC, as proven by the discovery of the "Dead Sea Scrolls". Yet we are constantly being told that "Constantine" was responsible for all the information contained in the NT testament....he indeed must have been the first exampled proof of "time travel" to predate the many proven examples of NT referenced sources. Ranging from claims to have changed the Sabbath, which history actual provides hundreds of examples of Sunday worship by Christians before Constantine was even born, might less assumed rule over Rome.
Thus by you claiming that no writings of the NT can be validated before Constantine came into power shows the weakness and duplicity of your argument, as you "assume" every one to be just as "gullible" as perhaps you have been in readily swallowing the whole load of parroted nonsense that you have presented. What you are claiming is that God does not have the power to keep his promises not to have His words of revelation corrupted, as you claim that God lost control of His creation (The Holy Scriptures) right after the New Covenant was revealed. How Odd indeed, as you have in the past presented opinion that the Old Testament is valid and historical, when you needed backing of your LIBERAL POLITICAL VIEWS by some of your female gallery followers but Claim that the NT testament was corrupted by Constantine, of all people, some 3 centuries after the fact. But this argument falls, if the texts were corrupted by men then the scriptures of the entire NT would not work in harmony with one another as surely as no two men can agree on anything, there surely would be examples of corruption in disharmony of the 27 books presented. Please point out just one truth that contradicts another truth presented in any of the books. Many have been claimed to exist, but none proven.
A physical source that predates Constantine by at least 200 years is validated by some fragments of original manuscripts, written in Greek and mentioning Jesus name. The John Ryland discovery of a portion of the Book of John dated around 100 AD, indicates the stupidity of your secular arguments.
And the only logical reason that Constantine could have chosen Christianity over the many and various other idol worshiping displays of religion that he had been exposed to from birth, would be the fact that he knew the real God of Creation when He was presented with the knowledge of such. Why would he have chosen some false religion like exampled in the Hindu faith, when he had been exposed to such false ideology from birth? BD
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05-12-2008, 10:33 AM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Uptown Chicago and the Green Mill on a regular basis
Posts: 1,768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf_22
christianity still would have been founded. original chrisitans (sorta like some today) were pretty hard to not pay attention to. eventually someone else in power would have made headway for them.
but perhaps the neo-pagan movement would have started sooner. and original polytheistic religions would have thrived there for making things better for females (this wouldn't be found to much in hinduism, except for the neo-worship of Kali). and we also could have avoided having our society built on dichotomies, not to mention viewing sexuality in a very differnet manner. which could have been a bit more positive in some aspects.
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Interesting theory,
Where do you think the rise of Christianity (in whatever form it would have taken) might have taken hold?
Clearly, it would not have been in Europe.
The middle east, East Africa ?
What do you think ?
I think you nailed it on the neo pagan movement as caounter balance
Quote:
nathanbforrest45 I wonder why I don't have this fool on ignore. Not even worth the effort to do that. Smart makes a comeback indeed. What a misnomer that one is.
That anyone really like someone who honestly believes they are smarter than everyone around them and everyone else is a fool or worse? You may think you are in their camp but eventually they turn on you as well. They are just small people who are afraid of their own shadow so they pretend they are the great intellects of the world.
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What IS you problem Nathan ?
Are you so weak minded and insecure in your faith that you can not absorb a historical hypothetical without your paranoia kicking in, and being personally offended ?
Please feel free to comment on the question I posed, or if you disagree with the premise of the question, that’s fine too, but your hissy fit is just silly
Why, are you a kook ?
If not, nothing in my post should have offended you
__________________
Argue with some..IGNORE the stupid
Yeah it hurts, you have been fucked by an Elephant !
"Happamia, sanoi kettu pihlajanmarjoista kun ei niihin yltänyt" ("Sour, said the fox about rowan berries, being unable to reach them"
Last edited by smart makes a comeback : 05-12-2008 at 10:37 AM.
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05-12-2008, 10:38 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smart makes a comeback
As most people know, or should know, the founder of the Christian church was not Jesus, Peter, Paul or James, but the Roman Emperor Constantine.
He ordered ecumenical councils to draft the tennets of the Universal Christian church, which with the exception of some changes made during the divide between the Roman and eastern church, and later in the reformation, still exist today. ( The virgin birth, the devine nature of Christ, the resurrection, etc)
Question:
(Bible thumpers and non secular kooks might want to sit this one out)
What is instead of Christianity, Constantine had mandated the adoption of Hinduism instead ?
How would history have changed ?
Examples:
No crusades ?
The Bubonic plague contained by existing medical procedures which were forbidden by the church at the time ?
No Spanish inquisition ?
What wars would not have taken place ?
Would the western hemisphere been discovered and populated the same way, and would there have been an influx of those fleeing religious (Christian) persecution ?
What would the US look like today, or would it evfen exist ?
Discuss
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Obviously someone who doesn't undertand history all that well.
First of all, NONE of the Emporers before Constantine were Christian and yet Christianity was growing rapidly.
Secondly, Constantine did not make Christianity the official religion of Rome, Theodosius did.
The biggest reason I think Constantine tolerated Christianity and allowed it to grow was for political unity, which turning Hindu would not have accomplished.
See, only an ignorant person would say that Rome turned Christian because of Constantine rather than saying Constantine turned Christian becaus of Rome.
Oh, and the plague killed millions all over Asia.
Your lack of knowledge is astounding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf_22
christianity still would have been founded. original chrisitans (sorta like some today) were pretty hard to not pay attention to. eventually someone else in power would have made headway for them.
but perhaps the neo-pagan movement would have started sooner. and original polytheistic religions would have thrived there for making things better for females (this wouldn't be found to much in hinduism, except for the neo-worship of Kali). and we also could have avoided having our society built on dichotomies, not to mention viewing sexuality in a very differnet manner. which could have been a bit more positive in some aspects.
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Christianity was already founded.
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05-12-2008, 10:43 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smart makes a comeback
Interesting theory,
Where do you think the rise of Christianity (in whatever form it would have taken) might have taken hold?
Clearly, it would not have been in Europe.
The middle east, East Africa ?
What do you think ?
I think you nailed it on the neo pagan movement as caounter balance
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What don't you get?????
Christianity is what forced Contantine's hand, it was already on the rise. Read a book once in a while, you might learn something.
Christianity had already taken hold in the Middle East and was spreading throughout Europe, so when you say it 'clearly' could not have been Europe you couldn't be more wrong. It was already there and was growing rapidly.
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05-12-2008, 10:45 AM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Uptown Chicago and the Green Mill on a regular basis
Posts: 1,768
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Quote:
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Dom1 This user is on your Ignore List.
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Quote:
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bluedog This user is on your Ignore List.
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They never read the disclaimers and small print !
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Bible thumpers and non secular kooks might want to sit this one out
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__________________
Argue with some..IGNORE the stupid
Yeah it hurts, you have been fucked by an Elephant !
"Happamia, sanoi kettu pihlajanmarjoista kun ei niihin yltänyt" ("Sour, said the fox about rowan berries, being unable to reach them"
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05-12-2008, 10:46 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,501
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The Hindus fought wars against each other and outside forces for the purpose of expansion. Once again fatty is lost.
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05-12-2008, 10:48 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,501
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I have a feeling that fatty would not like the caste system. Although it wouldn't matter, in either system she is a fucking idiot.
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05-12-2008, 10:51 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,501
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Time to create yet another user name, fatty. That is what you usually do when you prove that you don't have a clue what you are talking about and there is no way to redeem yourself.
Tell me about how Christianity didn't start spreading to Europe until Constantine came to power.
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05-12-2008, 10:56 AM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Uptown Chicago and the Green Mill on a regular basis
Posts: 1,768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinny Fatts
Fundy atheists abound... 
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What would fundamentalist atheism (oxymoron) entail pray (no pun intended) tell ?
__________________
Argue with some..IGNORE the stupid
Yeah it hurts, you have been fucked by an Elephant !
"Happamia, sanoi kettu pihlajanmarjoista kun ei niihin yltänyt" ("Sour, said the fox about rowan berries, being unable to reach them"
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05-12-2008, 11:01 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smart makes a comeback
As most people know, or should know, the founder of the Christian church was not Jesus, Peter, Paul or James, but the Roman Emperor Constantine.
He ordered ecumenical councils to draft the tennets of the Universal Christian church, which with the exception of some changes made during the divide between the Roman and eastern church, and later in the reformation, still exist today. ( The virgin birth, the devine nature of Christ, the resurrection, etc)
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He didn't found the Christian Church.
Christianity became the official religion in 380 - Constantine was long dead by then - look it up, I am right.
Constantine didn't even become Christian until his death bed. Under your rationale then why didn't the entire Roman world turn towards Mithras?
Perhaps you should have looked some of this stuff up before you posted anything.
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