Separation of Church and State

nathanbforrest45 · #11 (**permalink**) 03-18-2008, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormanNorman

OK nathan, well give me an example where you have recently had your freedom of religion denied or infringed upon? I ask this, nathan, because I see many claim this, but no one has ever really provided me insight as to what they mean when they say that they can no longer worship/believe in public, etc.

Opening prayers at various sports functions are now prohibited. Kids are not allowed to wear John 3-16 teeshirts to school or in at least one case to openly carry a Bible. Its also the idea that we have become hostile to religion and anyone professing any religious belief today is immedately branded a fascist, a kook, or a Jesus freak. Every attempt is being made to remove religion from our very psyches. See my response to George regarding Hitler and religion

I went to both public and private school (Catholic). I graduated in 1963 from high school. Terry Parker High School, Jacksonville Florida started each day with a Bible verse (Old Testement) or a prayer. I did not see the Jews or atheist of the day falling over dead as a result of that.

Heckler · #12 (**permalink**) 03-18-2008, 11:33 AM

Why should anyone be forced to listen to your beliefs Nathan?

You have every right to believe as you wish, but there is no constitutional right to proselytize at public events.

Teak · #13 (**permalink**) 03-18-2008, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45

Opening prayers at various sports functions are now prohibited. Kids are not allowed to wear John 3-16 teeshirts to school or in at least one case to openly carry a Bible. Its also the idea that we have become hostile to religion and anyone professing any religious belief today is immedately branded a fascist, a kook, or a Jesus freak. Every attempt is being made to remove religion from our very psyches. See my response to George regarding Hitler and religion

I went to both public and private school (Catholic). I graduated in 1963 from high school. Terry Parker High School, Jacksonville Florida started each day with a Bible verse (Old Testement) or a prayer. I did not see the Jews or atheist of the day falling over dead as a result of that.

Once again you have not listed one denial of your right to worship. You HAVE listed a litany of cases where SOMEONE was prohibited from fostering their beliefs off on others, who may not believe the same way.

Why is it not good enough to be able to pray, SILENTLY, or render you devotion, SILENTLY. Why must you insist upon the right to behave as a "holly roller" in public? There are two places for that: YOUR church and YOUR home.

StormanNorman · #14 (**permalink**) 03-18-2008, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45

Opening prayers at various sports functions are now prohibited.

If it is led by a public school official, it should be prohibited. That school official represents a government (paid for by my tax dollars) entity.

Quote:

Kids are not allowed to wear John 3-16 teeshirts to school or in at least one case to openly carry a Bible.

Now, that is a violation of their freedom of speech and religion and they should challenge that. Kids are not public officials. I've seen the ACLU (one of your favorite organizations I'm sure

) take up many cases like this.

Quote:

Its also the idea that we have become hostile to religion and anyone professing any religious belief today is immedately branded a fascist, a kook, or a Jesus freak.

There are people who do that and that's too bad. Those who want to express their religious beliefs should do so...and tell those other people to fuck off (maybe not in so many words).

Quote:

Every attempt is being made to remove religion from our very psyches. See my response to George regarding Hitler and religion

I don't know. I strongly believe in the Separation of Church and State, but only separation from the state....not the people. People should have a right to express their religious views, period.

Quote:

I went to both public and private school (Catholic). I graduated in 1963 from high school. Terry Parker High School, Jacksonville Florida started each day with a Bible verse (Old Testement) or a prayer. I did not see the Jews or atheist of the day falling over dead as a result of that.

But, that doesn't make it acceptable. In the 1920s,30s, 40s, and 50s, blacks weren't falling over dead as a result of segregation either (as long as they stayed in their place)....that doesn't make it ok. I guess I don't understand the need to have the Old Testement prayer. You can go to church 7 days a week if you want...why does it need to be part of public policy...a public that more and more represents different faiths and beliefs?

George O Well · #15 (**permalink**) 03-18-2008, 11:37 AM

Quote:

How does my belief in a creator challange yours?

>>>How would you like a 15' tall gold-leaf statue of Buddha in front of every courtroom in America? It wouldn't challenge my belief in a creator, it would just be obnoxious.

Btw, I like Christmas, Christmas trees, wreathes, all that good non-Christ related paraphernalia. But I get plenty of that stuff at home and in church. Christ was NOT born under a Christmas tree.

Reynard1967 · #16 (**permalink**) 03-18-2008, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormanNorman

Me.................

For shame.......

StormanNorman · #17 (**permalink**) 03-18-2008, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reynard1967

For shame.......

Oh...oh....

speaking of which, I need to get back to my work...

nathanbforrest45 · #18 (**permalink**) 03-18-2008, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormanNorman

If it is led by a public school official, it should be prohibited. That school official represents a government (paid for by my tax dollars) entity.

Now, that is a violation of their freedom of speech and religion and they should challenge that. Kids are not public officials. I've seen the ACLU (one of your favorite organizations I'm sure

) take up many cases like this.

There are people who do that and that's too bad. Those who want to express their religious beliefs should do so...and tell those other people to fuck off (maybe not in so many words).

I don't know. I strongly believe in the Separation of Church and State, but only separation from the state....not the people. People should have a right to express their religious views, period.

But, that doesn't make it acceptable. In the 1920s,30s, 40s, and 50s, blacks weren't falling over dead as a result of segregation either (as long as they stayed in their place)....that doesn't make it ok. I guess I don't understand the need to have the Old Testement prayer. You can go to church 7 days a week if you want...why does it need to be part of public policy...a public that more and more represents different faiths and beliefs?

two things
(1) Actually blacks did fall over dead because of segregation. They were not able to get as much medical care as whites, they were not able to get as much police protection as whites and in general lead lives that were in greater danger than whites, strictly as a result of segregation.

(2) I don't care if a Muslim or a Buddhist preaches in a public space. I don't have to listen to him if I don't want to. However, I believe it is only thru a belief in a Supreme Being that we create everlasting codes of conduct. Without that belief then its simply Might makes Right. Others will argue but it always comes back to "sez who"??. I firmly believe the "counterculture" is attempting to rid the world of all religion except a state religion

Reynard1967 · #19 (**permalink**) 03-18-2008, 11:44 AM

I am not currently a satanic follower but I believe I shall start buying bill board space to forward thier cause. A few "Jesus died for you...point is he's dead", signs ought to help.
How about " follow Christ...he died so should you" Or save your child's soul, kill them before they screw up".

Sam · #20 (**permalink**) 03-18-2008, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reynard1967

OK, off the wall question. Who here is currently at work, not on a lunch or break?

I will go to work in an hour and work for 24 hours and that is it for the entire week, although I have to do a lot of CE and meetings that amount to about 45 hours per week of work. If I wanted to post at work I could, but I rarely have time. I get paid per procedure that I perform and make a very good living doing so.