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03-14-2008, 03:36 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: May 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanite
bro, take it easy, you've been duped. Please, read my definition of atheist, I posted it in this thread, dont reply again until youve read it. Now... I assert that your definition of agnosticism is the same as mine of atheism and that your crude categorization of feelings towards religion is inferior to my categorization, which I feel, and hope to patiently explain to you, is a more accurate way of describing atheism that includes the most liberal to most stern "types" of atheists including agnostics.
Sorry if calling you a pussy as offensive, but I stand by my other points.
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I did read your definition. And I disagree with your conclusions.
Agnosticism (from wikipedia): Agnosticism (from the Greek α-γνωστικισμός, a, meaning "without", and gnosticism or gnosis, meaning "knowledge") is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims — particularly metaphysical claims regarding theology, afterlife or the existence of God, gods, deities, or even ultimate reality — is unknown or, depending on the form of agnosticism, inherently unknowable due to the nature of subjective experience perceived by that individual.
The last part of the definition is why I believe agnosticism covers what atheism covers, only goes further.
Atheism (from wikipedia): Atheism, as a philosophical view, is the position that either affirms the nonexistence of gods[1] or rejects theism.[2] When defined more broadly, atheism is the absence of belief in deities,[3] alternatively called nontheism.[4] Although atheism is often equated with irreligion, some religious philosophies, such as secular theology and some varieties of Buddhism such as Theravada, either do not include belief in a personal god as a tenet of the religion, or actively teach nontheism.
As for why I got pissed? Arrogant pricks like yourself always piss me off, even if we basically agree.
__________________
"If you're going to tell people the truth, be funny or they'll kill you." -- Billy Wilder
"Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied." -- Otto Von Bismark
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03-14-2008, 04:08 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Okay, lets start of by first tyring to ignore what our good lord wikipedia has to say. i think we can both agree definitions of words are subjective, evolving, and varying? Right?
Now, I recommend you learn specifically what a gnostic is. The word gnostic is actually a word ascribed to the followers of Cain and the believers in knowing God's ultimate truth. That is to say gnostic does not mean "knowledge", it means "truth". Turth as in essence, ultimate truth, truth with a capitol t.
In that sense, I am also an agnostic, one who does not believe in ANy ultimate truths. However, thankfully, philosophy has developed a new way talking about this type of person... we call ourselves Ironists. Agnostic suffers from the same thing the word atheism suffers from, which is that the word itself comes from religious contexts. A gnostic, like i said, is a worshipper of Cain. So, why call yourself agnostic? The word atheist and the word ironist will suffice.
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03-14-2008, 04:08 PM
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also, i want you to see yourself and myself as likeminded people. because we are. and as such, we should work together on the language we use to describe ourselves
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03-14-2008, 04:11 PM
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also, that definition of atheist has got to be one of the shittiest definitions i've ever heard. buddhists are atheists? are you fucking kidding me?
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03-14-2008, 04:32 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanite
also, that definition of atheist has got to be one of the shittiest definitions i've ever heard. buddhists are atheists? are you fucking kidding me?
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How much do you know about Buddhism?
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They only recognize greatness when some authority confirms it.
CAHQTOOC
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03-14-2008, 04:43 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crowonapost
How much do you know about Buddhism?
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a pretty fair amount. and while i am aware of the fact that some people practice a form of buddhism that does not believe in Gods, to suggest it is not theistic in nature is to fail to understand what constitute theism. Nirvana, enlightenment, chanting, praying, meditating... all theistic in origin, nature, and practice.
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03-14-2008, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanite
cmon... you know you're an athiest
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I'm an Agnostic...If someone or something can provide positive proof that there is a God/Gods,,,I'm willing to listen. Until then,  I'll continue to live the time I have on this Planet. The best way I can, in as much Peace and Happiness as I can.
Afterall,,,if I truly am a Creation of a God/Gods, and should be groveling to, or bowing down to them... The mistake is on their part.
It ain't happening. 
__________________
A Liberal is a Man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel (Robert Frost 1874-1963).
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03-14-2008, 05:04 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Realist1
I'm an Agnostic...If someone or something can provide positive proof that there is a God/Gods,,,I'm willing to listen. Until then,  I'll continue to live the time I have on this Planet. The best way I can, in as much Peace and Happiness as I can.
Afterall,,,if I truly am a Creation of a God/Gods, and should be groveling to, or bowing down to them... The mistake is on their part.
It ain't happening. 
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Well, thats good, I wouldn't ask you to turn Christian or anything weird like that. All I would ask is that you stop being such a pussy, call yourself an atheist. Thats what you are, be proud of it, not ashamed. Agnostics, COME HOME!
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03-14-2008, 05:07 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanite
a pretty fair amount. and while i am aware of the fact that some people practice a form of buddhism that does not believe in Gods, to suggest it is not theistic in nature is to fail to understand what constitute theism. Nirvana, enlightenment, chanting, praying, meditating... all theistic in origin, nature, and practice.
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I see you do not. You are equating the outward practices with theism, it is profoundly incorrect.
The very CENTER point of Buddhism is the issue of attachment. Siddhartha went through a long journey to find what the center of Suffering is & found it is attachment.
One of the key elements of that attachment issue was belief in a God or gods.
The key to getting beyond the cycle of suffering was to let go of the idea or attachment to God or gods. Non belief in any form of deity.
When Siddhartha found this realization & found the Ground State Luminosity of Truth of ALL THAT IS, he became Buddha, a fully enlightened being. He then spent the rest of his life codifying & spreading this knowledge to the rest of humanity to help guide people down a path that would break them from the cycle of suffering in the form if Buddhism.
There is more on compassion but this is enough for your frame of reference on 'give me a fucking break'.
Now to the outward trappings you so flippantly assume show deity worship I will state that the practices of Chanting & meditation are tools used in the process of quieting the mind & training oneself to let go of the myriad phantoms of attachments that entrap us.
It is not theistic at all.
__________________
They only recognize greatness when some authority confirms it.
CAHQTOOC
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03-14-2008, 05:08 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanite
Well, thats good, I wouldn't ask you to turn Christian or anything weird like that. All I would ask is that you stop being such a pussy, call yourself an atheist. Thats what you are, be proud of it, not ashamed. Agnostics, COME HOME!
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Weird,,,as in strapping bombs onto themselves as the Islamic Idiots do trying to kill you,,,or annoying the crap out you trying to save your Soul instead of killing you...
Burb,,,start paying attention to the details on the Religions of the World.
__________________
A Liberal is a Man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel (Robert Frost 1874-1963).
Last edited by Realist1 : 03-14-2008 at 05:17 PM.
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