you have to understand that this is one of my biggest points. I agree with you that being an atheist in the way you defined it is rather foolish. That definition does not reflect the atheist community. Having been an atheist my whole life, I've sought many like minded friends, and now that I have dozens, if not hundreds, of atheist friends and acquaintances I feel comfortable saying it isn't just me who disagrees with this definition, most of us do. The problem is that the definition of atheist that you're using is directly inspired by a theistic interpretation of understanding the world. Only a theist could actually ascribe a definition like that to an atheist, no atheist would self-ascribe such obvious dribble. "one who does not believe in God", sets up a universe with this false dichotomy, believing in God or not. It isn't like that to anyone who doesn't believe in a God. To atheists, its clear that there is no intrinsic truth when it comes to something as unknowable as the unknown. The REAL definition of an atheist, to anyone interested in understanding an atheist's mind-state a little better, is the following: "who who does not think in a theistic context, one who does not ascribe extra-worldly qualities to worldly things." When a christian/theist smells a flower they think "God is beautiful". When an atheist smells a flower he thinks "that flower smelt great".

I do not know what I am then… agnostic or atheist. I do tend to go back and forth, believing in God or not believing. I’ve tried reading the bible a few times but I can’t help wondering if I should believe what it says or if its just another book of fiction. My grandparents and most of my family are Christian but I was brought up with no religious teachings. I guess my mother didn’t want to push any teachings on me, but it sure has made my life kind of confusing because religion really is a big part of life. Atheists at least believe in something… maybe agnostics have nothing.

Nothing? No, we have the one true fact. We know that we don't know. Everyone else is just pretending to know something one way or the other.

I guess that is true then. Perhaps I am just not agnostic.

You don't have to be if you don't want to be.

But structurally it comes down to whether or not you really believe that you could be wrong. If you don't, then you are an atheist, if you do believe you could be wrong, then you are probably agnostic.

an atheists' beliefs are all unique to each atheist. that might be how it should be, the more people, each with different perspectives is a pretty progressive and productive way to think about people.

Are they pretending? I think many are convinced their belief is the truth, which is not the same as pretending.....

The variety of ways of thinking (or not) still astonishes and at times, surprises me......

There is no such thing as knowledge for which anyone should seek to attain. Its the western equivalent of nirvana or transcendence. To say excepting that fact is accepting the one true fact is a very Socrates and the Delphi fairy-tail. It isn't that knowledge is unattainable, but that it didn't really exist outside of ourselves at any given time. There aren't "truths" waiting to be revealed by smarter creatures, their are only more "truths" to create by creative minds.

Definitions are obsolete? If so then there is no atheist, agnostic, Christian, Jewish etc. Rendering the whole conversation a moot point. Perhaps you have your own definition of what an atheist is, which isn't a problem, but you have to let other people put you in the category they deem correct.

You don't know that God does or doesn't exist for sure do you? It seems "clear" to you, that what you believe is true. But then it also seems "clear" to everyone else that what they believe is true as well. This is really no different than the "what makes your religion right and the others wrong" argument. In other words, faith.

We get back to definitions now. What's "extra-worldly"? Something we don't understand?

For once I'm not picking a fight, cos I think you clearly have actually thought about this a lot, and I respect that. But I'm certain you're an agnostic not atheist because everyone is, just most don't know it. A simple definition of an agnostic is someone who doesn't know whether there's a God or not. My definition of an agnostic, is someone who doesn't know whether there's a God or not, but knows they don't know.

Don't listen to the retards in here who say agnostics are pussies. Thinking doesn't make you a pussy, but not thinking does make you an idiot.

Come over to the dark side we welcome all.

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TheDayYourDignityDied....and to openly preach hatred for you and your lifestyle and the ultimate eternal torture in store for you at the criminally insane hands of the imaginary Jewish Godfather they so love.

But don't you dare openly reciprocate their government condoned hatred for you. Because not only will they be mystified and stunned by your sheer effrontery, your flagrant sinfulness for insulting their sacred God's-in-waiting status, they have the power to turn you into a publicly despised leper with the same social stature as a child molestor.

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"Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." - John Maynard Keynes