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04-28-2008, 05:15 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George O Well
>>>You don't become the leader of great movements by saying "I don't know". Who's going to follow someone who says "I don't know"? And it is VERY important to have followers.
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Particularly if you want money out of them :-)
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04-28-2008, 07:15 PM
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Political Guru
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Fla.
Posts: 979
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Better check your spainish.
[quote=Uncensored2008;394714]I'm surprised you hadn't heard it. It's an arcane term for pedophile.
As for my Mexican heritage; I've heard of Carlos O'Brian, but never Pedro Mueller....[/QUOte
Pendejo
pen·de·jo slang adj. 1. (cobarde) - cowardly 2. (tonto) - stupid m., f. 1. (cobarde) coward 2. AMERICA: (tonto) - jerk m. (pelo) - pubic hair INFLECTED FORMS: pendeja - adj. pendej...
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__________________
 Archimedes
Because they can't wait use Rescue 8
self closing flotation rescue device.
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04-30-2008, 03:25 PM
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Seasoned Veteran
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakuanSoho
Interesting topic. I think this is true of certain demigods like Hercules. Before writing, time becomes a vague concept, so there is a tendency to do what I call "time compression", i.e. turning the slow development of hundreds even thousands of years into something that occurred within a generation. So in keeping with your theory I would say that this happened quite a lot, that many different people doing many different things turned into a single person doing all those things.
But for most gods, I disagree. I think they are more personifications of nature than ancestor worship. There is a strong belief in humanity that all actions have some agent causing them. This underlies the Aristotelian belief that the natural state of items is at rest unless something causes it to move. So something had to cause a storm, hence the cause is a god. Something causes the wheat to grow, that cause is a goddess. Myths were created to explain complex interaction of differing agents. Plants grow and die in a cycle, therefore the goddess of vegetation and the god of death have some sort of agreement (as personalized by the existence of Persephone). And so on.
The Greeks, being highly rationale, took this to greater extents than most other people at the time, which is why they had so many more gods.
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I agree with you actually. Many of the Gods and Goddesses are personifications of nature. But I think this was stage 2 of our theological development. Stage 1 would have been the ancestor storytelling that set the precedent for the idea of humans that were more powerful than normal and only later became cosmically powerful.
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04-30-2008, 03:36 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,799
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[quote=r8dmarshall;394976]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncensored2008
Pendejo
pen·de·jo slang adj. 1. (cobarde) - cowardly 2. (tonto) - stupid m., f. 1. (cobarde) coward 2. AMERICA: (tonto) - jerk m. (pelo) - pubic hair INFLECTED FORMS: pendeja - adj. pendej...
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Yeah, of course the word I used was "Pederist," which means pedophile.
__________________
Q:
How many liberals does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A:
Liberals have outlawed lightbulbs!
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04-30-2008, 05:05 PM
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Political Junkie
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 342
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Posted this somewhere else but I'll drop it here and see what we get.
Believing in God, in the classic biblical sense anyway, requires me to suspend a considerable amount of common sense and logic. The bible was written by men (supposedly dictated by God, you have to take their word for it(there's a lot of that in religion)) thousands of years ago (when people still believed the world was flat). We don't believe in witches and fairies anymore. (well most of we don't). It suggests that God is insecure/narcissistic (you must prey to me, prove your devotion), intolerant/dictatorial (if you don't do what I say you will be damned to hell etc.) and arrogant/insensitive/stupid (you should have faith, I don't need to prove myself). The very ideals of religion defy logic, why would anyone want to worship such a being? We wouldn't like a person who's like that, why is OK with a being that is supposed to be eternally wise and inherently good?
Logical answers for belief in faith, an inability to except a life that is pure chance and/or meaningless in the grand scheme of things. A need for something to look forward to/overcome the fear of our own mortality and of those we love. Something that can conveniently explain the unexplainable “how did the universe come to be”. A sense of belonging/community. Conditioning passed down the generations.
Atheism is certainly more logical and therefor more likely, the day everything can be explained by science/logic is the day I become an atheist. Atheism loses me for 2 reasons, one is that it's a belief based on science, and science needs to be proved, until it is proved, it is merely speculation/hypothesis. The other is personal conditioning, the first 13 years of my life being browbeaten with religious doctrine, is somewhat difficult to shake off completely without said proof.
Not knowing the answer to something isn't necessarily a bad thing (certainly something that can not be proved), and for agnostics it's more important to acknowledge not knowing and be open to new ideas, than to think they have the right answer, and close the blinds on expanding their understanding of the world around them.
That's why agnostics are smarter, they know when they don't know lol
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom1
As far as the language, what does that have to do with not being able to outwit anyone? I have read your posts and am extremely confident that I am uch smarter than you are, and what language I choose to use to express myself means nothing. If I were talking to a lying asshole face to face I would tell them they were 'fucking pathetic', just like I am telling you.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDayYourDignityDied
I wet the bed until I was 17.
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04-30-2008, 08:39 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: In the hills just north of Melbourne Australia
Posts: 1,005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clee_O'Patty
I agree with you actually. Many of the Gods and Goddesses are personifications of nature. But I think this was stage 2 of our theological development. Stage 1 would have been the ancestor storytelling that set the precedent for the idea of humans that were more powerful than normal and only later became cosmically powerful.
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Religion: "How I would arrange things if I was God" - or, by their God's fruits, so shall ye know them.
__________________
“Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw
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04-30-2008, 09:54 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDayYourDignityDied
Posted this somewhere else but I'll drop it here and see what we get.
Believing in God, in the classic biblical sense anyway, requires me to suspend a considerable amount of common sense and logic. The bible was written by men (supposedly dictated by God, you have to take their word for it(there's a lot of that in religion)) thousands of years ago (when people still believed the world was flat). We don't believe in witches and fairies anymore. (well most of we don't). It suggests that God is insecure/narcissistic (you must prey to me, prove your devotion), intolerant/dictatorial (if you don't do what I say you will be damned to hell etc.) and arrogant/insensitive/stupid (you should have faith, I don't need to prove myself). The very ideals of religion defy logic, why would anyone want to worship such a being? We wouldn't like a person who's like that, why is OK with a being that is supposed to be eternally wise and inherently good?
Logical answers for belief in faith, an inability to except a life that is pure chance and/or meaningless in the grand scheme of things. A need for something to look forward to/overcome the fear of our own mortality and of those we love. Something that can conveniently explain the unexplainable “how did the universe come to be”. A sense of belonging/community. Conditioning passed down the generations.
Atheism is certainly more logical and therefor more likely, the day everything can be explained by science/logic is the day I become an atheist. Atheism loses me for 2 reasons, one is that it's a belief based on science, and science needs to be proved, until it is proved, it is merely speculation/hypothesis. The other is personal conditioning, the first 13 years of my life being browbeaten with religious doctrine, is somewhat difficult to shake off completely without said proof.
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Being an atheist in no way what so ever makes you a scientist or anything else. To be an atheist can consist of any interpretation of the world that does not involve a God or any theistic principles. It does not mean you believe in evolution, the big bang, or anything else.
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05-02-2008, 06:20 PM
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Political Junkie
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanite
Being an atheist in no way what so ever makes you a scientist or anything else. To be an atheist can consist of any interpretation of the world that does not involve a God or any theistic principles. It does not mean you believe in evolution, the big bang, or anything else.
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I didn't say that, did I?
I don't think you actually read what I put (or you forgot, ignored it or heard what you wanted to hear), I think about these things very carefully before I type them.
Can you say with 100% certainty, there is no God?
Define what kind of atheist you are.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom1
As far as the language, what does that have to do with not being able to outwit anyone? I have read your posts and am extremely confident that I am uch smarter than you are, and what language I choose to use to express myself means nothing. If I were talking to a lying asshole face to face I would tell them they were 'fucking pathetic', just like I am telling you.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDayYourDignityDied
I wet the bed until I was 17.
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05-02-2008, 06:24 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDayYourDignityDied
I didn't say that, did I?
I don't think you actually read what I put (or you forgot, ignored it or heard what you wanted to hear), I think about these things very carefully before I type them.
Can you say with 100% certainty, there is no God?
Define what kind of atheist you are.
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I have defined what kind of atheist I am already. But here goes again, i am called an ironist. we assert there is no ultimate essence or truth to existence, but instead that life is only comprised of idiosyncratic personal truths. I can't say with certainty there is no god because there is no such thing as certainty when it comes to metaphysics. Regardless, it is one of the more foolish interpretations of our existence.
I did read what you wrote, you said "Atheism loses me for 2 reasons, one is that it's a belief based on science"
Did I really miss your point? It isn't a belief based on science, it doesn't have to be based on any sound principles at all. one can be an atheist based on finding it sexually arousing. It doesn't matter.
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05-02-2008, 06:43 PM
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Political Junkie
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanite
I have defined what kind of atheist I am already. But here goes again, i am called an ironist. we assert there is no ultimate essence or truth to existence, but instead that life is only comprised of idiosyncratic personal truths. I can't say with certainty there is no god because there is no such thing as certainty when it comes to metaphysics. Regardless, it is one of the more foolish interpretations of our existence.
I did read what you wrote, you said "Atheism loses me for 2 reasons, one is that it's a belief based on science"
Did I really miss your point? It isn't a belief based on science, it doesn't have to be based on any sound principles at all. one can be an atheist based on finding it sexually arousing. It doesn't matter.
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Isn't an ironist someone who's constantly ironic? lol
athiest
"a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings."
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idiosyncratic personal truths
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We are beings. If it's in our heads does it exist?
You actually sound like a pretty smart guy/girl, but you're not an atheist. No one is when you get down to questioning. Atheists can disbelieve in the existence of a supreme being or beings to an extent.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom1
As far as the language, what does that have to do with not being able to outwit anyone? I have read your posts and am extremely confident that I am uch smarter than you are, and what language I choose to use to express myself means nothing. If I were talking to a lying asshole face to face I would tell them they were 'fucking pathetic', just like I am telling you.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDayYourDignityDied
I wet the bed until I was 17.
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