Originally Posted by GAYDAR

There is no need to disprove, what disproves itself

The existance of God is proven to be false by it's own legacy and text.

If a single word of the "Gospal" is false, ALL of it is false. Since we know that much of it is false, we can only conclude that it is all false.

End of discussion

Originally Posted by Mamba

Although I believe in the freedom of religion except for muslims which should be shot on sight and catholics (advocates of child molestation) which deserve a much more painful death. I just can't believe that modern humans can actually have faith that an invisible man that lives in the sky controls everything but allows all the atrocities of human history.

Originally Posted by GAYDAR

There is no need to disprove, what disproves itself

The existance of God is proven to be false by it's own legacy and text.

If a single word of the "Gospal" is false, ALL of it is false. Since we know that much of it is false, we can only conclude that it is all false.

End of discussion

Originally Posted by migueld

This page is about religion, not just about God. The question raised here is much broader in the sense that I ask if any religion is true, or is the entire belief in religion and God (Gods), based on a falsehood or misconception, and that there is absolutely no basis in truth for any of it, other than as an entirely man made social construct.

Let us look at one religion in particular and see what we can learn. I have chosen Mormonism, for no other reason than that it is a recent religion and therefore its beginnings are easier to research because they are well documented. I assure you that I have no particular grudge against this religion.


Mormonism (The Church of Latter Day Saints) was founded by Joseph Smith, born 1805 in Sharon, Vermont. According to the official story of the LDS Church, in 1820 Smith was visited by God the Father and God the Son, after praying about which church he should join. He was told by Jesus, he should join none of them for they were "all wrong" and all the Christian church's doctrines "were an abomination" (Joseph Smith - History 19, Pearl of Great Price).


This First Vision was followed by several visits from an angel named Moroni who, in 1827, directed Smith to retrieve a set of Golden Plates which had been buried in a hill near Smith's home in Palmyra, New York. Between 1827-1830, Smith, with the help of friends, translated the Golden Plates into the LDS scripture, the Book of Mormon. Published in 1830, this was to become the first of many scriptures for the Mormon Church. By this time, Smith had also officially organized the LDS Church and was gaining a following.


Amongst their doctrines, I have selected just the one shown here as an example:


Black people are black because of their misdeeds in the pre-existence (Three Degrees of Glory, LDS Apostle Melvin J. Ballard, p. 21).No need to comment on the unbelievable arrant nonsense of this point.
The main point of interest here however, is howJoseph Smith started his new church. He claimed to have had a vision (he was the only one to have had this vision) that told him to start a new church with himself as the leader.(How fortunate for Smith). He was told where to find the 'golden plates' that contained 'the scriptures' (they just happened to be buried, by an ancient civilization, conveniently near his home in New York).



He set out alone and 'found' them alone.(No witnesses). Once found, only he could translate them with the aid of a mystical device that only he was in possession of. (Very fortunate). Smith allowed no one else to see the plates and 'translated' them in secret from behind a screen. (Okay, we've got the picture). Smith was a known trickster and fraudster and was charged by the police on a number of occasions for various offenses.
Some may say that the whole thing was an obvious fraud devised by Smith to set himself up as the leader of a new church. Indeed, to believe otherwise would take a monumental leap of faith that would include leaving behind common sense and reason.



BUT, Mormonism is a growing religion that has a massive following. Why? Because it was not 'Smith's ' idea, it was revealed to Smith in a vision, or so he claimed.This is crucial. If he had attempted to start this new church as his idea, withoutsuch a 'divine seal of approval' the entire concept would never have got off the ground. People wouldn't have believed tricky Smith, but the words of Jesus, that's a different matter entirely. It could be argued however, that it really doesn't matter how the Mormon Church was founded as many would say it does a lot of good anyway.


As another example of religion we can look to Christianity and The Ten Commandments. Moses was leading the Israelites away from Egypt into the desert. After months of travel the masses were a little discontent, they were making golden idols and generally misbehaving, they needed strong leadership. They wouldn't listen to Moses, after all, what right did he have to tell them what to do? So Moses heads up (alone) into the high mountain and there, in complete secrecy, is given the ten commandments by God. He returns with the famous stone tablets and reads out the law, the word of God. The law must be obeyed without question because it comes from God, with Moses of course as His chosen spokesman on Earth. Sound familiar? This of course is pretty much the same method as adopted by Joseph Smith in modern times, and why not? it worked for Moses. The same theme, with variations, has been used time and time again in all religions since time immemorial.


All religions have the same basic ingredients, with local variations. Laws are introduced in order to control the population. These laws come from a higher authority that can not be challenged because they come from a source beyond the reach, or question, of man. It keeps the population in check - follow the 'law' or be punished, obey and be rewarded, though not in this life of course which we admit is pretty horrible, but after you die and go to paradise. So go back to your grubby hovel, scratch a living from the dirt, bury your dead and don't bother us again with your stupid questions.


It can be no coincidence that the countries that have the poorest populations also have strongest and harshest religions. Take for example how the terrorists that flew the planes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon willingly sacrificed their lives in the sure and certain knowledge that by doing so they would enter paradise. Without this belief I doubt if that many people could be persuaded to commit suicide for apolitical cause, but by making it a religious cause it completely changed everything, they believed they would not simply die, but instead enter paradise.


Death is another reason for the strength in the beliefs of religion. The vast majority of people are naturally afraid of death, it is the normal fear of the unknown. By its very nature we can never gain knowledge of what may befall us after death, it is our worst nightmare come true. We all know for certain that we will die but do not know when, how or why. Religion is there to comfort us on our trip into the great unknown, all will be well, in fact it will be far better than anything you could possibly imagine. Now that's a really good sales pitch, work on people's fears then sell them the solution. Its like showing a potential customer some really dreadful photographs of fire damaged houses then selling them a dozen smoke alarms.