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Old 01-28-2008, 11:59 AM
nathanbforrest45's Avatar
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Default The Afterlife

How many of us would obey the speed limit laws if there were no penalty for not obeying them? How many petty crimes would be committed if once again there were no penalties against them? I recently saw a documentary on TV regarding the prison system. It stated that some inmates serving life without possibility of parole used murder as a way to gain status. It stated there were several inmates at Pelican Bay Prison in California that had committed 20 or more murders against fellow inmates or guards. Knowing that they had already been given the worst possible sentence there was no incentive not to kill again and again.

Could we not also say the same regarding morality? If there were no penalties or rewards regarding leading an immoral lifestyle why would such a concept exist? Without a cosmic being that dictates to us what is moral or immoral and dispenses rewards or punishments for obedience or failure what exactly determines what is moral and what isn't? Why would I even care what was moral or immoral if it didn't matter beyond this physical life?

If you say society would pass laws then your statements that you can't legislate morality has just been completely busted. Besides what criteria would anyone use to decide what is moral or immoral. Furthermore, not everything that is immoral is illegal or vice versa. Abortion for example is legal but certainly immoral. Stepping on a sea turtle is not immoral but currently illegal (if it is immoral who has decided that its immoral and why is it immoral?)

I believe that we need an afterlife in order to establish a basis of morality. And, by extention we need a God to have created that afterlife and the morality it protects.

Any comments?

Please keep it rational and not merely insults

Thank you
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Old 01-28-2008, 12:17 PM
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THE COSMIC ENERGY WEB - The Godscience Manifesto

Around the turn of the nineteenth century the Supreme Being decided to have a little fun with physicists who had God Complexes: he wrote a joke book called Quantum Physics. There are many jokes in this book, but a favorite one is to dangle a very small piece of raw meat in front of a hungry physicist. The meat is just out of reach, and if the physicist looks away for just a split second it completely disappears. Another favorite is to have this small tidbit divide into even smaller pieces that change shape and have colors that aren't really colors and do other crazy things before they too disappear. There are many other jokes in this book, but unfortunately, most physicists just don't get it. Here are some of their comments:

"If I would have known science was going to be like this, I would have been a botanist." —Enrico Fermi

"Quantum mechanics. I wish I would never have heard of it." —Erwin Schroedinger

"Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood it." —Neils Bohr

"If quantum physics is true, it's the end of modern physics." —Albert Einstein.

Physicists talk about subatomic particles like they're the tiniest grains of sand, but in fact all these leptons and quarks aren't "real" at all—they're nothing but ghostly energy fields. This means that every "real" object in our world is what most of us would call nothing—a collection of infinitely small, invisible energy fields. The vast energy field of the Cosmic Energy Web that we call the universe, and all matter in it are like a giant globe of clear water, containing billions of pieces of floating ice, frozen into distinct shapes that we call matter—and then in billions of years all these shapes, from the largest stars to the smallest microbes, will melt back down into this same endless sea of invisible energy.

And the quantum world gets even stranger. These leptons and quarks—the ghostly building blocks of all matter—don't even exist until scientists themselves actually stare into the empty space of an energy field—only then do these particles suddenly materialize. And when the scientists turn away, these same particles just as suddenly disappear back into the same invisible energy field!

Needless to say, most scientists must find it quite disconcerting that their own minds are creating real particles from nothingness in a feeble parody of the Big Bang. Recently physicists even discovered a subatomic particle called the anomalon, that actually changes its appearance depending in which laboratory it's discovered! Nothing is more irritating to a physicist than a subatomic particle with attitude, and these maddening discoveries have turned the world of science completely upside down for physicists who once considered the universe to be a giant, predictable machine governed by their scientific laws.

The scientific term for someone staring into a quantum energy field and making solid particles suddenly materialize is called, appropriately enough, "the collapsing of the wave function," and it's this term that leads scientists to one of the most baffling questions of modern physics. If all matter around us is made up of billions and billions of invisible subatomic force fields...

Who's collapsing the wave function?

In other words, there's no scientific reason why the entire world around us—all reality, from hard steel to soft smoke—shouldn't be an endless ocean of invisible energy waves. An unknown Consciousness has to be looking—collapsing the wave function of the Cosmic Energy Web to create our entire universe. Theologians of course can give us a quick answer to this question, and Bishop George Berkeley was one of the first. He called God the "perceiver of last resort," who keeps the world in existence when we humans aren't looking—and here's a famous limerick that sums up this quantum weirdness.

There was a young man who said, 'God,
It has always struck me as odd
That the sycamore tree
Simply ceases to be
When there's no one around in the quad.'

'Dear Sir, Your astonishment's odd;
I am always about in the quad:
And that's why the tree
Will continue to be,
Since observed by,
Yours faithfully, God.'

HAARP IS MEDDELING WITH THE WAVE FORM :-(

HAARP.net - Could The HAARP Project Be For Mind Control? by Nicholas Jones

GET OFF THOSE "CUNT TROLL" PILLS
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Old 01-28-2008, 12:22 PM
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Could you kindly tell me what this rambling has to do with the topic of this thread?
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Old 01-28-2008, 12:28 PM
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HE ASKED

The Afterlife

The Godscience Manifesto

Godscience is a call for scientific recognition of evidence that confirms what most people already know: that God and an afterlife actually exist, and that the universe he's created is not only stranger than YOU FUCKWADS think, it's stranger than we could ever imagine.

ARE YOU STUPID ...did you actually think I would not respond to an AFTERLIFE thread :-O

YouTube - Bonnie Tyler Making Love Out Of Nothing At All

^I^

Last edited by ONEWHITEDUCK; 01-28-2008 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 01-28-2008, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ONEWHITEDUCK View Post
HE ASKED

The Afterlife

The Godscience Manifesto

ARE YOU STUPID :-O
I must be I took you off ignore to see what bull shit you would come up with on this one.

Oh well, live and learn
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Old 01-28-2008, 12:37 PM
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IT'S A WAVE.....it's a particle.......NO...it's a WAVE......NO..IT'S A PARTICLE :-O

GET A ROOM :-(

What Is The Super Spectrum

weird quantum guy
THE SCIENCE GUY......ehehehehehehehehehehe
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Old 01-28-2008, 02:00 PM
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I really wanted this to be a serious discussion but I see that onewhittleprick has hijacked the thread so I will withdraw.
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Old 01-28-2008, 04:04 PM
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Religion is the oldest form of government..what better way to get people to do what you want then to tell them that if they did not, then they would burn in hell?....forever
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Old 01-28-2008, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45 View Post
How many of us would obey the speed limit laws if there were no penalty for not obeying them? How many petty crimes would be committed if once again there were no penalties against them? I recently saw a documentary on TV regarding the prison system. It stated that some inmates serving life without possibility of parole used murder as a way to gain status. It stated there were several inmates at Pelican Bay Prison in California that had committed 20 or more murders against fellow inmates or guards. Knowing that they had already been given the worst possible sentence there was no incentive not to kill again and again.
There will always be some who follow laws and morality, because it is in their nature to do so. There are some who do whatever strikes them regardless of penalties...

I think the vast majority are somewhere in between, and would probably behave somewhat differently without laws....


Quote:
Could we not also say the same regarding morality? If there were no penalties or rewards regarding leading an immoral lifestyle why would such a concept exist? Without a cosmic being that dictates to us what is moral or immoral and dispenses rewards or punishments for obedience or failure what exactly determines what is moral and what isn't? Why would I even care what was moral or immoral if it didn't matter beyond this physical life?
I'm agnostic. So "sin" doesn't enter the picture for me, although I do believe in right vs wrong. Not because I'm going to face some eternal damnation.
For me, basically, you are a "good" person if you don't intentionally hurt others. That's just the bottom line...it goes beyond that....

Quote:
If you say society would pass laws then your statements that you can't legislate morality has just been completely busted. Besides what criteria would anyone use to decide what is moral or immoral. Furthermore, not everything that is immoral is illegal or vice versa. Abortion for example is legal but certainly immoral. Stepping on a sea turtle is not immoral but currently illegal (if it is immoral who has decided that its immoral and why is it immoral?)
Each of us forms our own morality, laws come in to give us an agreed to morality.

Who decides what is right and wrong for society? the rich and/or powerful.


Quote:
I believe that we need an afterlife in order to establish a basis of morality. And, by extention we need a God to have created that afterlife and the morality it protects.

Any comments?

Please keep it rational and not merely insults

Thank you
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Old 01-28-2008, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Heckler View Post
There will always be some who follow laws and morality, because it is in their nature to do so. There are some who do whatever strikes them regardless of penalties...

I think the vast majority are somewhere in between, and would probably behave somewhat differently without laws....




I'm agnostic. So "sin" doesn't enter the picture for me, although I do believe in right vs wrong. Not because I'm going to face some eternal damnation.
For me, basically, you are a "good" person if you don't intentionally hurt others. That's just the bottom line...it goes beyond that....



Each of us forms our own morality, laws come in to give us an agreed to morality.

Who decides what is right and wrong for society? the rich and/or powerful.

Ah, that is the question is it not? Who does decide what is right and wrong. If you sincerely believe your statement t hat its the rich and powerful then you believe that "might makes right". This philosophical belief is what gave us Hitler. He was a strong follower of Nietchze.

If there is no universal truth is being "moral" meaningful? You said your morality is do no harm to another. What if my morality was "Do nothing that would stop me from doing what I would want"?

Laws do not constitute morality. For example 50 years ago it was illegal to be homosexual in many states. The entire gay rights movement started because of a police raid on the gay club Stonewall in Greenwich Village NY. Today we would not think of passing anti gay laws. In another fifty years who knows, we may be back to those laws.

No, I think there must be an outside influence controlling what is and isn't moral for all mankind.
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