What exactly do you think my stand on inimmigrantion is?
Let me explain it to you
1 secure the borders
2 educate those in Mexico an hoew to come here legally( if necessary help them do it)
3 give all the illegal innigrants a chance to become legal.
Now where is my stand UnChristian?
I have no problem helping anyone or with anyone entering this country legally. I have done it before. The bible also says that you should follow the law. I have given food the the poor of all ethnic backgrounds without asking if they are legal or not. I just happen to believe that they should come over here legally first.

Romans 13:1-7 (New International Version)
Submission to the Authorities
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Romans 13:1-7 (The Message)***
To Be a Responsible Citizen
1-3Be a good citizen. All governments are under God. Insofar as there is peace and order, it's God's order. So live responsibly as a citizen. If you're irresponsible to the state, then you're irresponsible with God, and God will hold you responsible. Duly constituted authorities are only a threat if you're trying to get by with something. Decent citizens should have nothing to fear.
3-5Do you want to be on good terms with the government? Be a responsible citizen and you'll get on just fine, the government working to your advantage. But if you're breaking the rules right and left, watch out. The police aren't there just to be admired in their uniforms. God also has an interest in keeping order, and he uses them to do it. That's why you must live responsibly—not just to avoid punishment but also because it's the right way to live.
6-7That's also why you pay taxes—so that an orderly way of life can be maintained. Fulfill your obligations as a citizen. Pay your taxes, pay your bills, respect your leaders.

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People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp92vkXcC0w

Well, God sits down on his perfect throne. Then he has sheep. The sheep are the ones who followed the advice of the sephard. The goats are the onery ones. They are the ones that have given God problems.

The prose in the first bit is triumphant. As if a contest had just finished and then he is presented with the entirety of man. He has to take on the enitre world and judge who is good and bad. God has all eternity he is in no rush. This is his triumph he will enjoy it. The bible says that God is a jealous God. Jesus is the humble. It is a nice balance. So God goes through one by one by painstaking one. Now he will take his sheep to his right, and his goats to the left. He is going to seperate them so that they will be able to clearly see who was right. All the arguing and bickering is over. God takes his ones to the right in and he proclaims how great it will be. He boasts as to how wonderful things will be. He proclaims you are about to see what you have lived your whole life for.

Now a question I have is since there are a whole lot of people out there. All kinds. And all cultures. We even have some today that live by nature and believe in animisim. Others think peace is it.

One thing that never gets mentioned here is the nation that got over run forty years ago and the leader walked out and started writing about all kinds of stuff. He tried to get his home back and he still does, but it is not fully consuming his life. He is not sending anyone over to try to take it back by force. It sist under occupation with no fighting. I dont think he is god's goat. This guy I'm sure will be in on God's sheep side. Why would the fair and just God that the new testament speaks of. Why would that fair God send that man to hell to burn in fire and brimstone? He was so sheepish I think he could make it into heaven.

Do you truly believe that because God said "Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me." that he meant that the least were to be left out. He says men in jail, homeless, hurting. It is wonderful to help these, but then would the kind God of the new testament come back and say that no those who suffered go to hell. Why would this kind compassionate God be mean to those who suffered no matter where they were from?

Why does this passage have to be the entire message of the bible. Have you ever read into the sound of it. I'm talking only about these verses Matt. 25:31-46. Listen to it go. It changes its prose.

First "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, 32 and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats." This is a triumphant return from which he can now divide his spoils.

"Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world." All this work has finally paid off. I have been doing this for you forever. Now is its massive unveling.

"For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me."

Now the prose changes. He is now saying 'Aww... and look what you did for me.' Those who did for him while they are alive want this. They have been waiting for this. You have told me all my suffering is now going to pay off.

"Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?" Now the people are like deer in a head lights. The people are dumbfounded. This is where it is finally proper to use awesome. The presence and the reward; him and his castle. A home. A soverign home.

"And the king will say to them in reply, "Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me."

Then he will say to those on his left, "Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

Now there are many of you who say that the people that live now days in this world are backwards goat herders. What do you suppose the people were like back then. They did not read. People told them the bible. They were not going to be able to really analyze a verse like we can. Their interpretaion was much more loose to say the least, but In the begining when the prose is triumphant that is us triumphing as well. We get to see our enemies and give them the finger or whatever we like to them. We triumph. Then as one big movement we all get to walk into the house of God and live this is why. You were nice that's what god tells us then we all live happily ever after. Except those jerks out there.

This sounds like a story to me. It plays on the audience by by changing how they feel. When someone speaks this in person it has more power. They sensationalize the events to make the story better. Then if we get them to follow. We are doing well. My point in all this is that it is a beautiful book. The whole thing, but the people who wrote it were poets. Not historians. They make the plain seem great by using their words well. But they were not historians. Apprecite the beauty of the book, but don't kill for it. Enjoy the feeling it gives you. The anger when something goes wrong the joy of psalms. Enjoy it all, but your morals are your own.

To read this book the way one should. Not as a book that has to be read front to back as an exercise. But to break apart every story in it. Do that and by the time you have accepted the emotions you felt and didn't act irationaly about it you got it. Religion was yours. It is not about what others do and how to get them back but how to conquer those irattional emotions. Jesus had them beat. He was bright. He was honest. He was caring. He could not be roused to anger. No matter what happened he was never mad or irrational. The sheep don't care if the other sheep is white or black. They do their thing. They both follow god. Many people have learned how to feel anger but not hurt someone else for it. If that is the example of God...

Bark, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. You are just assuming that the Bible is false and just a story but I believe that it is true.
If you ever get the chance I recommend you read Pastor Rick Warren's
A Purpose Driven Life. It will give you good insight into Christianity and besides it was #1 on the New Yorks Times best seller list.


2 Corinthians 5:6-10 (New International Version)
6Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7We live by faith, not by sight. 8We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

From the Bible we can surmise that God will ask us two crucial questions:

First, "What did you do with my Son, Jesus Christ?" God won't ask about your religious background or doctrinal views. The only thing that will matter is, did you accept what Jesus did for you and did you learn to love and trust him? Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Second, "What did you do with what I gave you?" What did you do with your life—all the gifts, talents, opportunities, energy, relationships, and resources God gave you? Did you spend them on yourself, or did you use them for the purposes God made you for?"

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People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp92vkXcC0w

You're too quick to jump to conclusions AYFR. This is the biggest problem with Christians. They think there is only one way to interpret the bible. Any thing that sounds different than what their pastor teaches them has to be wrong.

The thing about the gifts. I do use my gifts, don't you think. My gifts have lead me to believe as I do now. Before I used them I had faith in God. Why would God give me a gift that destroys my faith? Just because I believe that true knowledge can not be taught by Rick Warren or anyone; what I believe is that true knowledge comes from learning by going to the source directly. I won't take Rick Warrens interpretation as my own, because it is not my own. I will not take Pat Robertsons as my own because it is not my own. I will not take the spin or bias of another who has studied a book that I can read myself.

Why should anyone trust the fate of their soul to someone elses interpretation? Because it feels right? In persuasion the goals is to make one feel. Because they know more than I do? Then fix that yourself. Go learn. Those who stake their soul blindly on the words of another are in my book lazy. Now I mean nothing bad to those who have read the bible, but you have to read it without preconcieved ideas. Look some will trust their soul to the words of another man who may or may not have your best interest at heart. Some very dirty things are done by men and pastors and preachers are no exception. I trust me. I don't have just a heartful of trust for someone who smile at me on sundays.

I did not say to trust anyone interpretation. I have come to every conclusion on my own. I get my information directly from the source as well. I can tell from talking to you that you major gift is teaching and yes you are using your gifts but are you using them for God's glory?
It says plainly in the Bible that none may enter heaven without acccepting Jesus first. There is no other way to interptet that.
I told you about the book because you seem intrested in religion. That was my only reason. I have no alterior motives. Would I like to see you acept Jesus? Yes but i can not force you nor will I try. That is a decision you must decide on your own.

The only person I trust my fate to is Jesus. I study every chance I get and even have argued with my pastor a time or two.

Not disagreeing which is why we must hold the one called to be leaders of church accountable.

BTW if you haven't already guessed my major gift is evangelism

__________________
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp92vkXcC0w

[quote=Areyouforreal;23010]
It says plainly in the Bible that none may enter heaven without acccepting Jesus first. There is no other way to interptet that.

Which makes you no different than the radical Muslims who say the same thing about Allah. The only difference is they will kill you if you don't convert. Much like the Catholic Inquisitions of the Middle Ages and the Spanish Conquistadors. "Convert or Die! But, first things first, we're going to rape your women and steal your gold." God, glory and gold! Not necessarily in that order.

The difference is that we want you to accept Christ you actually have a choice. Argue all you want but I am secure that I will go to heaven are you?

__________________
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp92vkXcC0w

You're correct in some cases, but you're also taking great liberty with that generalization. If I'm not mistaken, you share the same sentiment when speaking about islam.

Are you saying you don't have faith in God at present?

AYFR was not telling you to replace the Bible with Rick Warren's book. People are unique and can offer a variety of new angles to any given topic. That was the point.

A genuine Christian will not tell you to trust your soul on interpretation or what feels right. Also, if a person decides to read out of the Bible, they are either reading with an open heart or for entertainment purposes only. This is a black and white issue.

People are inherently sinfull. Everybody will sin regardless of title.

However this is not what stands out among the rest of what you said. Your violent withdrawl from AYFR's recommendation of Christian literature gives the impression of a closed-minded individual. Not painting you with that brush, just the impression it gives the reader.

Also, you talk about knowledge as an ultimate goal of achievement which may only be reached through self-impowerment. Your arrogance has alluded to this perspective many other times. Overall, I think you've given knowledge too much authority. It is only one component of intelligence.

The best and safest thing is to keep a balance in your life, acknowledge the great powers around us and in us. If you can do that, and live that way, you are really a wise man. Euripides

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He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.
Dr. Samuel Johnson

As well as Allahs glory, Buddahs glory, God has gone by many names. If I want to express the beauty of the Qur'an will God be mad at me? If I tell people how nonviolence can help lead one to a state of bliss will God be mad at me?

It says plainly in the Bible that none may enter heaven without acccepting Jesus first. There is no other way to interptet that.

Except for the fact that the Bible has been split apart and sown back together about ten times. When the politics change the bible changes. Who determines what books are printed in the bible, God, or man?

I told you about the book because you seem intrested in religion. That was my only reason. I have no alterior motives. Would I like to see you acept Jesus? Yes but i can not force you nor will I try. That is a decision you must decide on your own.

Those books are always to feel goody for me. I'm not saying there is no validity to it. There has to be otherwise it wouldn't have been published, but human nature is more diverse than anything I have ever read by Evangelicals. God and Jesus are the way for one sect. Not even the largest sect in the world. For others it is Allah. For others it is reincarnation till you get it right. There is too much diversity and those books tell me that no matter how good my family is half will go to hell. They can not prove this with anything other than the bible and even that is open to much debate. I do have a deep respect for Jesus and his teaching. Just he himself was an amazing figure, but God... I'm not saying this because I think he is unholy, but If Jesus is the only way to heaven, Then what about those who have never even heard the mans name. Are they going to be condemned to hell without even the benefit of being exposed to him? That is not fair. If God is not fair he will be fine without me. I seek equality.

As sure as you are that you are going to heaven, I am that sure that there is no heaven. There are many schools of thought to this one. None can prove any more than another.