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11-11-2007, 03:59 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tampa,Fl
Posts: 1,695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob
Well, I don't belong to a mega church, but as Dom said the people willing give to the church to support the churces works. I personaly know of large churches that operate child care centers for the people of the community with rates based on income. They also operate kitchens feeing the elderly and homeless. But you normaly don't know about these out reach programs if you don't attend. I say leave the tax exempt status alone.
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Rob, can't speak for the others and I'm sure some want to remove the exempt status purely because they hate anything to do with religion, but money used for items like you describe would not be affected.
There is a local mega church, Without Walls I think is the name, that is under investigation. The founder, and pastor, and his wife are in divorce proceedings (which I'm sure will delight some) and the littany of things they are accused of is just amazing.
They own multiple homes, and we're not talking low rent district shanties. They own cars out the wazoo, including a Ferrai that didn't come from the local Auto Way, I'm sure.
These items were purchased with money donated to the church. I guess a claim could be made the items were their own brand of charity; feeding the poor, homeless brokers and the car salesman.
As I stated in an earlier post, I have no problem with people deciding to donate. And any money used for ANY charitable purpose or in the REASONABLE support of their ministry should remain tax free.
But the Ferraris and the private airplanes have absolutely ZERO to do with any religious action, imo.
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11-11-2007, 04:10 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SW Oklahoma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justme
Rob, can't speak for the others and I'm sure some want to remove the exempt status purely because they hate anything to do with religion, but money used for items like you describe would not be affected.
There is a local mega church, Without Walls I think is the name, that is under investigation. The founder, and pastor, and his wife are in divorce proceedings (which I'm sure will delight some) and the littany of things they are accused of is just amazing.
They own multiple homes, and we're not talking low rent district shanties. They own cars out the wazoo, including a Ferrai that didn't come from the local Auto Way, I'm sure.
These items were purchased with money donated to the church. I guess a claim could be made the items were their own brand of charity; feeding the poor, homeless brokers and the car salesman.
As I stated in an earlier post, I have no problem with people deciding to donate. And any money used for ANY charitable purpose or in the REASONABLE support of their ministry should remain tax free.
But the Ferraris and the private airplanes have absolutely ZERO to do with any religious action, imo.
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Justme, I can understand that the Ferraris and airplanes should be taxed, but how do you go about modifiying the tax exempt rule and not affect the smaller congregations that are really working hard to help others? Once goverment starts tinkering with a law or rule they don't seem to stop.
__________________
An informed voter scares the Goverment lackeys.
An American first and always a Conservative.
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11-11-2007, 04:17 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tampa,Fl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob
Justme, I can understand that the Ferraris and airplanes should be taxed, but how do you go about modifiying the tax exempt rule and not affect the smaller congregations that are really working hard to help others? Once goverment starts tinkering with a law or rule they don't seem to stop.
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Rob, never claimed to have the answer, just complained about the status quo. Hey, maybe I'm a democrat after all. 
Really, good question Rob. I'm no expert on tax law or the exempt status of the church. There must be some accounting required. The exempt status could be verified through that, I would think.
And its not even that cut and dried. A private plane might actually be used for the church business and that use wouldn't be taxed.
Maybe someone can enlighten us on how the exempt status works and if in fact, there is a way that exist now to modify the current situation.
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11-11-2007, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justme
Rob, never claimed to have the answer, just complained about the status quo. Hey, maybe I'm a democrat after all. 
Really, good question Rob. I'm no expert on tax law or the exempt status of the church. There must be some accounting required. The exempt status could be verified through that, I would think.
And its not even that cut and dried. A private plane might actually be used for the church business and that use wouldn't be taxed.
Maybe someone can enlighten us on how the exempt status works and if in fact, there is a way that exist now to modify the current situation.
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Justme, never wanted to say that you or I have any answers to the guestion but I am going to do some research on what a church has to do to maintain its status and you can beleive this that I will put it out for every one to discuss.
__________________
An informed voter scares the Goverment lackeys.
An American first and always a Conservative.
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11-11-2007, 04:37 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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I wonder how much money Jesus raised in his ministry?
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S.O.S. ------ United We Stand, Divided We Fall
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11-11-2007, 08:17 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teak
Yep, just like the elderly, and infirm getting fleeced by bogus contractors, sham healthcare providers, etc. It's their money as well. What right does anyone have being upset because they are taken advantage of? There are suckers born every day.
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When people call into televangelists and give their money away nobody is forcing them to do this. People who give money to churches know where the money is going and they choose to give anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justme
The flock can do what they flock (  ) they want to with their money. if the preacher asks them to donate for an elaborate mansion for him and they choose to do it, thats fine. But that shouldn't be tax exempt, imo.
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I agree. But when they acting in charitable ways they should be tax exempt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OkhamsRazor
I wonder how much money Jesus raised in his ministry?
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I am sure he would have wanted people to give alms to the needy. So when a church gives to the needy I don't see anythign wrong with raising money.
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11-11-2007, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkhamsRazor
I wonder how much money Jesus raised in his ministry?
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If my memory serves me correctly, after Jesus died the believers banded together and sold what they had to provide for the needs of the church. I am not sure how much money Jesus raised if any but what does it matter?
__________________
An informed voter scares the Goverment lackeys.
An American first and always a Conservative.
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11-11-2007, 09:25 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Malibu, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom1
When people call into televangelists and give their money away nobody is forcing them to do this. People who give money to churches know where the money is going and they choose to give anyway.
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You're nuts. Peoples arms are not twisted, their beliefs are. The only thing people, who give money, believe, is what the scam artist tells them.
I would have no objections to "churches" retaining their tax exempt status IF they would return 70%, of the funds collected, to the poor and needy. Instead they build bigger, and more lavish "churches", and sock more away in their investment portfolio's.
Hell, some of these "churches" are spending millions to settle law suits, lobby congress, support political parties, and fund illegal immigrants. If they truly believed in the "separation of church and state", they would stay out of state affairs, and concentrate upon the spiritual needs of their congregation.
__________________
If you want change stop electing "liberal: democrats and "radical" Republicans. Find and support true Conservatives; those who believe in fiscal responsibilities, individual accountability, and a smaller government, with less control of your daily life.
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11-11-2007, 09:46 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teak
You're nuts. Peoples arms are not twisted, their beliefs are. The only thing people, who give money, believe, is what the scam artist tells them.
I would have no objections to "churches" retaining their tax exempt status IF they would return 70%, of the funds collected, to the poor and needy. Instead they build bigger, and more lavish "churches", and sock more away in their investment portfolio's.
Hell, some of these "churches" are spending millions to settle law suits, lobby congress, support political parties, and fund illegal immigrants. If they truly believed in the "separation of church and state", they would stay out of state affairs, and concentrate upon the spiritual needs of their congregation.
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How am I nuts? People's beliefs are who they are. You are saying they are stupid for believing what they believe, but you don't get to determine what people should believe and what they shouldn't. It really isn't any of yours or my business what people believe and what they don't believe.
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11-11-2007, 10:11 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom1
How am I nuts? People's beliefs are who they are. You are saying they are stupid for believing what they believe, but you don't get to determine what people should believe and what they shouldn't. It really isn't any of yours or my business what people believe and what they don't believe.
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I don't give a shit what people believe. I do care when they get ripped off by people twisting those beliefs, and lying about where the money is going. And that is what MOST churches are doing.
__________________
If you want change stop electing "liberal: democrats and "radical" Republicans. Find and support true Conservatives; those who believe in fiscal responsibilities, individual accountability, and a smaller government, with less control of your daily life.
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