Originally Posted by I_Hate_the_Nazi_Right

Yeah... it's kinda funny watching these grown ups making fun of groups like "Heaven's Gate" (those guys who had spock haircuts and were waiting for the spaceships) yet completely have faith in burning bushes, virgin births (I wonder how many teenage girls have used this line with their parents or frigid wives with their husbands) and god who hasn't shown up for any of their parties for the last 2000 years.

Most of them just generally creep out...

Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45

What are you talking about?

You don't really think Heaven's Gate was a Christian group do you? Can you point out to me in the Bible where Heaven's Gate philosophy can be found? Can you tell me what Christain group worships burning bushes? (That is Old Testement and is believed by Jews as well)

What does the Virgin Birth have to do with teenage girls or frigid wives (which is a sexist term from the gitgo)?

Explain yourself if you think you are able

Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45

Princess I think your Bible is missing a few pages. Nowhere does it say the light was created AFTER the trees. It says the sun and the moon and the stars were created after the light. The light already existed.

Most people read the Genesis creation account without using the scientific method and, therefore, make assumptions that are not supported by the text. For example, the first rule of the scientific method is to establish the initial conditions, or the frame of reference. Genesis 1:2 clearly states that the frame of reference is "the surface of the waters" of the earth. Most people have made the mistake of assuming the frame of reference of Genesis 1 is heaven or somewhere above the earth.

What does the text specifically say? The heavens (universe, solar system, sun, earth, etc.) were already created before the first "day" In other verses, the Bible says that the earth is controlled by the heavens, refuting geocentrism (4). In Genesis 1:2, God was "hovering or brooding" over the seas of the newly formed earth 5). We know from science this is where the first unicellular life forms first appeared (6). The Hebrew word, rachaph, translated as "hovering or brooding" is used only twice in the Old Testament. The second reference is to an eagle caring for its young (7). Therefore, it seems likely that the use of the word rachaph in Genesis 1:2 may be referring to God creating the first life forms in the sea.

1 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

1:2 And the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

Both science and the Bible (8) have told us that at the earth's creation, it was covered with a dense layer of clouds and gases which would have made it dark at its surface. Genesis 1:2 says, "darkness was over the surface of the deep." Next, God removed much of the cloud cover, when He stated, "Let there be light" (Genesis 1:3) This was the light of the Sun (already created) which now "separated light from darkness" (Genesis 1:4). It is very clear from the text that the sun had already been created and the earth was rotating on its axis, since there was light (day) and darkness (night) (Genesis 1:5).

Genesis 1:6-10 describe the initiation of a stable water cycle and formation of continents through tectonic activity)

Plant life was created on the third day These verses are probably the strongest argument for the day-age interpretation. The verse says quite clearly that the earth sprouted (or brought forth) plants and fruit trees bearing fruit. The process described is clearly similar to what we see today. Fruit trees take years to bear fruit, testifying that the third day was at least several years long, and could not possibly be just 24 hours.

Next the translucent cloud layer was removed so that the sun, moon and stars shown through. Notice the unusual construction in Genesis 1:14 which states, "Then God said, 'Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years;'" "Let there be" is an unusual way to describe de novo creation (see also verse 1:3). I believe that at this point God removed the translucent cloud cover from the planet to allow the stars, moon, and Sun to be seen from the surface of the earth (the frame of reference of all Genesis 1). The text then reiterates what God had already done in Genesis 1:1 regarding the creation of the sun, moon, and stars. The time frame describes events over days, seasons, and years - obviously more than 24 hours long.

Birds (12) (~70 x 106 years ago), whales (13) (~50 x 106 years ago) and sea mammals ("swarms of living creatures," where "creatures" is the Hebrew word nephesh, referring to soulish animals - those that can form relationships with humans) were created on the "fifth" day (Genesis 1:20-21), which would correspond to the end of the Cretaceous period/beginning of the Tertiary.
The fifth day describes a period of time longer than 24 hours as swarms of living creatures are multiplying in the sea.
I still don't understand why the concept of "Let there be Light" is different from a gigantic cosmic explosion. I am not saying that it all happened in 6 days of 24 hours duration. I am saying that you haven't a clue as to why the "big bang" happened anymore than I do. You can't tell me where all the matter came from before the "big bang". You can't tell me what caused the "big bang". You can only tell me something happened and because of "science" something else happened and here we are. The same science that changes its theories every single day.

On the sixth day God created the "beasts of the earth" (in Genesis 1:25 the Hebrew word is chayyah, which is best translated as "wild animal," usually referring to carnivorous mammals (14) (the extinct families Miacidae and Viverravidae, appeared ~50 x 106 years ago or current families Canidae, Felidae, Mustelidae, and Viverridae appeared ~30 x 106 years ago ) and the cattle (the Hebrew word is behemah, from which we get the word behemoth, the artiodactyls (large grazing mammals) appeared ~15 x 106 years ago) and the rodents (mammals that "creep on the ground"). Therefore, the wild and domesticated mammals and rodents were created on the sixth day.
I don't doubt the universe was formed by a "big bang" I doubt even doubt that it took billions and billions of years to form. My only doubt is that it was a something without any reason or beginning.

The last creation of God was mankind, who was also created at the end of the sixth day. What about humans and three million year old fossil remains of bipedal primates? I believe in a literal Adam and Eve, although I do not believe they lived millions of years ago. The Bible indicates that Adam and Eve had a relationship with God (Genesis 2-3) and the text says that unique among all the animals, humans are endowed with a spirit (Hebrew, ruach, Greek, pneuma), by which they are able to communicate with and love God. Scientists have found no evidence of religious artifacts before about 25,000 to 50,000 years ago (15), which is the point at which I purpose God created Adam and Eve. The Bible states that the covenant and laws of God have been proclaimed to a "thousand generations" (16). A biblical generation, described as being 40 years, would represent at least 40,000 years of human existence. However, since the first dozen or more generations were nearly 1,000 years, this would make humans nearly 50,000 years old, which agrees very well with dates from paleontology and molecular biology (see Descent of Mankind Theory: Disproved by Molecular Biology). Therefore, I believe that bipedal primates that existed before Adam and Eve, were just part of the animal kingdom, and were not endowed with the characteristics that make humans distinct from animals.

I also understand the science (to the best of my knowledge that is) of why the universe formed as it did. But like I understand why my automobile starts up and runs that does not tell me who created the automobile in the first place.

I mean no disrepect but you are an arrogant bitch who is so closed minded the fruit of knowledge would wither and die if it came within a mile of you.

Originally Posted by oceanbreeze

Lefty; I was driving through the "countryside and hills" of AZ today and if you don't believe in a spiritual or higher power, I invite you to come to AZ, you would say otherwise.

Originally Posted by theleftisright

Been there OB, and it is spectaclar.

But I would never make the msitake of thjinking that it was 'created" for my benifit.

You and I, are made of the minerals as the mountains and the desert. Just add some carbon, salt water, a negative charge of electricity, a billion or so years of evelolution, shake well and that is you and me.

Sorry OB, when I look at clouds, I see water vapor, not pillows for Angels.

That doesn’t mean however. I cant appreciate their beauty...cause I sure can.

Originally Posted by oceanbreeze

Lefty; not just the clouds,the mountains...how the earth and sky all blends together...it is beyond beautiful...not sure what parts of AZ you visited..but if you visited Sedona, Sonita, or the Grand Canyon area, it's not just minerals and vapor.

Originally Posted by theleftisright

Cmalback mountain, monumant valley, and the Grand canyon, and yes, i know what you mean by the sychornisity, it is indeed awesome.

But again, a canyon dug out by a river over a half a billion years, towers and domes created by erosion and displacement of the earth outer crust, and when oceanic plates collided with the North American plate and created the Rockys, it deprived the southwestern US of water, and created the desert.

Am I throwing ice water on the beauty of the region ? Not at all
This is what created the earth, and created us, and frankly, it is a lot more interesting then a guy in a white robe and grey beard.

Originally Posted by oceanbreeze

I suggest you visit the Vortex in Sedona.
The New Age in Sedona, Arizona - Travel - New York Times