IHNR vs. DOM1 "Was this Country Founded as a Christian Nation"

Dom1 · #**101** (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IHNR

This country was founded because the population (like today) didn't want to pay fucking taxes. Religion played a ZERO factor in the reasons from breaking away from the British Empire.

If you want a hundred quotes by Jefferson disavowing christianity, I can produce them.

Again... THE FOUNDER WHERE MOSTLY DIETISTS WHO BY DEFINITION ARE NOT CHRISTIAN. So, understand it and get over it.

See, its simple right wing idiots like this who want this country GOVERNED by god and not the people.

But you agreed that Christianity played a major role in the foundation of America. You also agreed that the Founders knew this was the case and that it was the case both prior ot and after the foundation of our nation.

IHNR · #**102** (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 02:07 PM

Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.
-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

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Dom1 · #**103** (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IHNR

Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom1

But you agreed that Christianity played a major role in the foundation of America. You also agreed that the Founders knew this was the case and that it was the case both prior ot and after the foundation of our nation.

Yet you agreed with this above.

Dom1 · #**104** (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IHNR

Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.
-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

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Do you really want to attempt to prove your case (whatever the fuck it is) through quotes? If so, make sure they are correct this time (BWAHAHAHAHAHA).

Also, how will you respond to quotes from the EXACT SAME people supporting religion in government?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom1

But you agreed that Christianity played a major role in the foundation of America. You also agreed that the Founders knew this was the case and that it was the case both prior ot and after the foundation of our nation.

Because you did agree to this above.

IHNR · #**105** (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom1

But you agreed that Christianity played a major role in the foundation of America. You also agreed that the Founders knew this was the case and that it was the case both prior ot and after the foundation of our nation.

I couldn't disagree with this statement more extraneously... and I would like to see your proof to the validity of the above statement.

IHNR · #**106** (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom1

Do you really want to attempt to prove your case (whatever the fuck it is) through quotes? If so, make sure they are correct this time (BWAHAHAHAHAHA).

Also, how will you respond to quotes from the EXACT SAME people supporting religion in government?

Because you did agree to this above.

Where did I agree to that statement... I would NEVER... EVER agree with that statement and would like see where you claim I agreed with it.

IHNR · #**107** (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom1

Do you really want to attempt to prove your case (whatever the fuck it is) through quotes? If so, make sure they are correct this time (BWAHAHAHAHAHA).

Also, how will you respond to quotes from the EXACT SAME people supporting religion in government?

Because you did agree to this above.

Never admitted to this statement and I would LOVE to see your proof that I did. Stupid.

Yeah because you know that the founders DON"T AGREE WITH YOUR IDEA OF WHAT AMERICA IS... AND SHOULD BE.

wvpeach · #**108** (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 02:28 PM

Excellent Post Soho , I agree it gives religion its due , its honor to keep it seperated from politics and governments in all ways possible. ..............Well said.

As for Nom Chomsky I cannot say I am a expert on his work. I have read a couple of his books in my day as well as caught a lecture or two of his on FSTV or LINK TV.

I could be reading into what he says what I want to hear, but what i heard is the following.

He supports education fully for all human beings.

He supports sustainable economies where resources that are renewable are preferred above finite ones.

He supports good stewardship of the planet.

He believes all people are entitled to food, water, and a way to make a living and put a roof over their heads.

He believes governments and corporations should be regulated so that profit is not the holy grail, instead profit should be made ethically with all of the above concerns kept in mind.

He believes that war ought to always be the last choice.

I agree with all of the above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TakuanSoho

I think you misunderstood me. Not surprising, it is a complex subject and I am writing on the fly, so I may not be perfectly clear.

First, I never said Catholicism is the "greatest religion". I said that they are the largest sect in the country. They are. Being the largest doesn mean you are the greatest though. My point is that many of those who call for making the US a "Christian" nation are not Catholic. Hence they should be more careful in making such calls because it could very well become a Catholic nation and not a Baptist nation, or Church of God nation.

I find this occurs in many areas, including secular ones. People call for something because they assume that they will get what they are calling for. However, often they get things they didn't expect.

As for the founders. In skimming what you said, I don't necessarily disagree with that. The separation of church and state was probably not meant as strictly as it became by the 1820's. But it has been the interpretation of the constitution for the past 188 years, and I do think it is one we should keep. Not to restrict religion mind you, but to glorify it.

wvpeach · #**109** (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 02:30 PM

Actually there is no set way politicians are sworn in.

I just saw what they said was the second Muslim sworn into congress the other day. He used no book of any kind at his ceremony, just raised his hand and swore to uphold the constitution of the US.

Short and sweet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IHNR

It is also valid that when a Muslim senator was sworn in using the Koran (it was found out later that the Koran used was owned by Thomas Jefferson) to be sworn into office. There were debates on the floor of our law making body protesting the use of the Koran as a means of authority when swearing in a senator who represents mainly Muslim constituents (I believe he was from the Detroit area, where there are a high number of Muslims)

For me I don't understand why the swearing in process using a christian process being used to begin with... a man's word is what I what I want to have when he enters office not superstitious rituals that don't belong in supposedly a non-christian government.

If you have three branches of government and 99.98% of them claim christianity as their faith then how do you not have a Theocracy?

wvpeach · #**110** (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 02:33 PM

LOL

trust me Soho sooner or later if you talk with Dom you will find out he is one of those people who is incapable of having a intelligent conversation.

But your right, we should let you find that out for yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TakuanSoho

Not sure, though I agree that he was a bit stupid in not reading your answers, his last question was fair enough and such questions should be encouraged.

I have found that when given a chance people can have pretty good discussions, though of course there are always those who are incapable of it.

Though of course this may be my idealism peaking through the heavy curtains I usually keep it wrapped in :-)