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01-22-2007, 07:59 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,773
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Got to agree with, Cat, here. Robert Lee may have had integrity, character, leadership, etc., but he's on the wrong side of history. Remember, he took up arms against his country so that some of his fellow country men could continue to enslave (and, for some, torture) black people.
Too many people just want focus on America's triumphs and virtues. MLK reminds us that America wasn't always so virtuous. He had the courage to stand up to one of the greatest stains on our nation's history and he did so via peaceful means when so many others were calling for violence on both sides. I sometimes wonder if some of the dislike for MLK (and his holiday) is derived from the fact that he doesn't symbolize one of America's many great achievements.
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01-22-2007, 08:05 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,986
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The same reason that Caesar Chavez is a holiday in California.
Ignorant political correctness from the poverty pimps.
Lincoln, Sherman, US Grant, Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, even FDR are all more important historical figures than MLK.
Don't get me wrong. I think MLK was a great man.
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01-22-2007, 08:20 PM
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Political Novice
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 28
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MLK holiday I think is the only fed. holiday not honoring a president; I am not offended by the holiday I just think it is unnecessary......
And now some city is wanting to outlaw saying the "N" word......Where is the ACLU now?Are they going to say that freedom of speech is not worth protecting any longer?
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01-22-2007, 08:24 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carly
MLK holiday I think is the only fed. holiday not honoring a president; I am not offended by the holiday I just think it is unnecessary......
And now some city is wanting to outlaw saying the "N" word......Where is the ACLU now?Are they going to say that freedom of speech is not worth protecting any longer?
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carly,
You may not agree with the ACLU, but they are usually pretty consistent in their stances. I remember them defending the KKK's right to march in my college town. My guess is that they would defend the user of the "N" word.
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01-22-2007, 10:07 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: San Diego, Ca
Posts: 2,237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat's meow
Oh heaven forbid  ...someone had an affair...my gosh, the world has come to an end... humans DO have affairs whether you think it is right or wrong, the greatest of leaders (religious or not) have done this. Hmmm, this is 2007...you might want to get out and find out a few things. And you my friend have NO idea whether Lee ever had an affair or NOT, I would not use that as silly BS to go after anyone.
Lee...world wide...in the 1800s...???...start naming the countries that hold Lee up as a great leader, you have got to be kidding me. This has got to be one of the most clueless and unsupportable statements I have heard in any argument in a long, long time. Again, you are comparing apples and oranges here.
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That's the problem with 'modern' society... it's ok to be a slut and an adulterer. Do as I say and not as I do. Hypocrits.
Here's some info on Lee you may or may not have known.
http://www.civilwarhome.com/leebio.htm
The son of Revolutionary War hero "Light Horse" Harry Lee-who fell into disrepute in his later years attended West Point and graduated second in his class. During his four years at the military academy he did not earn a single demerit and served as the cadet corps' adjutant.
In 1859 he was called upon to lead a force of marines, to join with the militia on the scene, to put an end to John Brown's Harper's Ferry Raid. Thereafter he served again in Texas until summoned to Washington in 1861 by Winfield Scott who tried to retain Lee in the U. S. service. But the Virginian rejected the command of the Union's field forces on the day after Virginia seceded.
Lee returned to Richmond as a paroled prisoner of war, and submitted with the utmost composure to an altered destiny. He devoted the rest of his life to setting an example of conduct for other thousands of ex-Confederates. He refused a number of offers which would have secured substantial means for his family. Instead, he assumed the presidency of Washington College (now Washington and Lee University) in Lexington, Virginia, and his reputation revitalized the school after the war. Lee's enormous wartime prestige, both in the North and South, and the devotion inspired by his unconscious symbolism of the "Lost Cause" made his a legendary figure even before his death. He died on October 12 1870, of heart disease which had plagued him since the spring of 1863, at Lexington, Va. and is buried there. Somehow, his application for restoration of citizenship was mislaid, and it was not until the 1970's that it was found and granted.
http://www.civilwarhome.com/CMHLee.htm
He married Mary Custis, daughter of Washington Parke Custis, and grand-daughter of Martha Washington, at Arlington, Va., June 30, 1831.
With clear insight into all the merits of the cause for which he drew his sword in 1861, he wrote on January 5, 1866: "All that the South has ever desired was that the Union as established by our fathers should be preserved, and that the government as originally organized should be administered in purity and truth." Six months later he wrote: "I had no other guide, nor had I any other object than the defense of those principles of American liberty upon which the constitutions of the several States were originally founded, and unless they are strictly observed I fear there will be an end of Republican government in this country."
He lived only a few years after the fall of the Confederacy, and those years were nearly all spent in service as president of the Washington-Lee college. The anxieties of his military life had changed his hair to gray, but he was still in vigorous health. His nearest friends alone saw that his sympathy for the misfortunes of his people became a malady which physicians could not remove. With sincere purpose to observe his parole, and, after all military operations had ceased, to lend his influence fully to peace, he carefully avoided all things which would irritate the people in power. Rigidly preserving his convictions, as he felt he must do, he nevertheless promoted the restoration of harmony among the people of the whole country. Thus his life passed until he was suddenly seized with sickness on the 28th of September, 1870, at his home in Lexington, and on Wednesday morning, October 12th, he died in the Christian's faith, which he had all his life confessed. Demonstrations of sorrow as sincere as they were imposing manifested the great love of his own people in the South, but these exhibitions also extended into the North, and from the European press America learned how highly the eminent Confederate was esteemed abroad. "The grave of this noble hero is bedewed with the most tender and sacred tears ever shed upon a human tomb. A whole nation has risen up in the spontaneity of its grief to render the tribute of its love." His name will lure his countrymen to revere truth and pay devotion to duty, and until the nation ceases to be free the glory of his character will be cherished as priceless national treasure.
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01-22-2007, 10:15 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: San Diego, Ca
Posts: 2,237
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More on Lee...
Let's not forget that Arlington National Cemetery is the plantation home of Robert E. Lee. The property was stolen by the federal government.
http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoun...ious_Views.htm
"One day last autumn the writer saw General Lee standing at his gate, talking pleasantly to an humbly-clad man, who seemed very much pleased at the cordial courtesy of the great chieftain, and turned off, evidently delighted, as we came up. After exchanging salutations, the general said, pointing to the retreating form, 'That is one of our old soldiers, who is in necessitous circumstances.' I took it for granted that it was some veteran Confederate, when the noble-hearted chieftain quietly added, 'He fought on the other side, but we must not think of that.' I afterward ascertained--not from General Lee, for he never alluded to his charities--that he had not only spoken kindly to this 'old soldier' who had 'fought on the other side,' but had sent him on his way rejoicing in a liberal contribution to his necessities." from Part 8, Chapter 19 of "A LIFE OF GEN. ROBERT E. LEE." BY JOHN ESTEN COOKE
http://www.virtuemag.org/articles/th...newall-jackson
Even in defeat, Lee manifested a quiet Christian dignity. Though firmly believing the South had acted rightly, and that he had done right in defending his native state against hostile invasion, he was never heard to reproach his former enemies. In fact, on one occasion after the war, when he served as president of Washington College (later renamed Washington & Lee), he responded, “Sir, if you ever again presume to speak disrespectfully of General Grant in my presence, either you or I shall sever our connections with this university.” Also, after the war, at the Episcopalian church in Lexington, when a black member approached the table to receive Communion, Lee was the first to join the man, and thus set an example for the other members of Christian behavior.
Not bitter, but saddened, Lee lived out his final years striving to educate the young men of Virginia to serve the country God had placed them in. The defeat of the South had, he accurately foresaw, ended the days of strict construction of the Constitution, and ushered in the American empire. States’ rights had always been precious to Lee. Indeed, he had gone to war to defend Virginia, his native soil. He was not a traitor or terrorist, as some modern, historically ignorant and inept writers accuse, nor was he in favor of slavery. He had drawn his sword “only in defense of my native state.” To Lee, and to the South, had there been no invasion, there would have been no war. But the war came, and Lee, a reluctant secessionist, became more dedicated to the cause as the war progressed, once remarking, “No civilized nation within knowledge has ever carried on a war such as the United States has carried on against us.” This, of course, stood in stark contrast to the impeccable behavior of Lee’s army during the Gettysburg campaign, a result of strict orders issued by Lee, which forbid the soldiers from exercising vengeance on the Northern population, but to wait on Him “to Whom vengeance belonged.” During the cruel abuse of the South during Reconstruction, he privately remarked, “Had I foreseen these results of subjugation, I would have preferred to die at Appomattox with my brave men, my sword in my right hand.” Prophetically, he would write to the British Lord Acton in 1866, “The consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all that have preceded it.” Two years later, he would mourn, “I grieve for posterity, for American principles and American liberty.” In our day and age, we are reaping the fruits of what was sown in Lee’s time.
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