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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2008, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by TakuanSoho View Post
I have provided lists of major Asian philosophers. The trouble is that you don't think what they talk about is important. It is a totally different tradition. I would also suggest you look at the massive impact modern Zen has had on the west for an example of how many westerners think there is some benefit to eastern thought.
You did provide that list, which you'd be surprised to know I examined very thoroughly. There is/was a really dope existentialist movement in Japan. I'm familiar with the cannon of the tradition, and its as stupid as Descartes.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2008, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Suburbanite View Post
my racism aside, can you explain that thing about knowing japanese helping you to read chinese? Do you mean only in terms of syntax or are the symbols that similar? They look different to me, and as an art student I've studied calligraphy extensively which is the only reason why this doesn't make sense to me.
Also, as for the Mandarin/Cantonese example, the same is true with Irish people, I can't understand a word out of their mouth. Or Jamaicans, bummicloud? What is that?
Good call on the Khan dynasty, batu kahn did attack poland and hungry (though didn't rule or control any of it), as did they control the empty parts of modern day russia... squeaked by with that technicality.
Since the character for medicine means the same in chinese as in japanese, if a chinese person wrote the symbol I know what he means even though I wouldn't understand it if he pronounced it. Where as if I wrote "medicine" down, a German would not understand what I meant unless he understood English.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2008, 06:18 PM
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is that the only word thats the same? i mean, would you be able to read a chinese news paper only knowing japanese?
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2008, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Suburbanite View Post
is that the only word thats the same? i mean, would you be able to read a chinese news paper only knowing japanese?
No thousands are the same.

Read no? I would get the jist of what the article was about, but in only knowing Japanese (poorly), I wouldn't be able to read it. However, a Japanese person would be able to pick up reading Chinese fairly easily, since they already have most of the "spelling" in place.

Another advantage is that character combos allows for easier understanding of new words. For instance atheism in Japanese is used by combining the characters for "No", "God", and "ism". Where as most English people on seeing the word would have no idea what it means (unless they understand the greek roots of the word). But even with my limited understanding of Japanese, first time I saw that combo I knew exactly what it meant.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2008, 06:33 PM
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i had no idea the symbols were the similar!
The japanese language uses too many qualifiers
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2008, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Suburbanite View Post
i had no idea the symbols were the similar!
The japanese language uses too many qualifiers
They are. Now don't get me wrong, I think phonetic script is better solely based on ease of use, but there are advantages to a symbolic script (and I might not be so glib had I grown up with it). Saying that one is infinitely or even much better than the other shows ignorance, not wisdom. They are different, and serve their languages good in its own way.

Ironically, electronically symbolic actually is faster to use than phonetic, particularly in texting. Since the sound attached to each symbol is only one or two characters, it would only take 3 or 6 taps to spell nearly any word in Chinese. Once they get the hang of it, the speed with which the Japanese or Chinese can text fairly detailed sentences is amazing.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2008, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by TakuanSoho View Post
Since the character for medicine means the same in chinese as in japanese, if a chinese person wrote the symbol I know what he means even though I wouldn't understand it if he pronounced it. Where as if I wrote "medicine" down, a German would not understand what I meant unless he understood English.
You may be amazed to see many languages, usually in written form do bare silimarities....not knowing any eastern languages I speak only of latin and european....clear on to american english..........apathecare in germany is identifiable in france and switzerland, netherlands, austria, belegium and luxembourg....all mean pharmacy...and the word does have roots in english as well. Just on observation, having been to all these countries.....
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2008, 06:57 PM
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the japanese have to use their phonetic language to type, a keyboard cant house all the required characters
further, this so called advantage is NOT specific to your language paradigm. For exmaple, many French and Spanish words are similar if not identicle, this is not cause by the way the language works but by the evolution of neighboring cultures. What our phonetic languages CAN do that yours cant is READ the other's language, though some words might be different, all sounds are the same.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2008, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Suburbanite View Post
the japanese have to use their phonetic language to type, a keyboard cant house all the required characters
further, this so called advantage is NOT specific to your language paradigm. For exmaple, many French and Spanish words are similar if not identicle, this is not cause by the way the language works but by the evolution of neighboring cultures. What our phonetic languages CAN do that yours cant is READ the other's language, though some words might be different, all sounds are the same.
Japanese and Chinese have absolutely NO evolutionary relationship (there is massive borrowing on the part of the Japanese, but grammatically there is nothing in common). They are as different from one another as English is Russian or even Bush language.

And not all sounds are the same. Ever try to read Greek? Or how about Ethiopian? Even some of the sounds between French and English are different.

Where as once you know the symbol, it is readable in any language. Because there is no connection between the sound and the symbol.

As for typing. Yes they use a phonetic shortcut, but again they only need one or two keystrokes to spell a word. The symbol makes it far more efficient.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2008, 03:32 AM
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no evolutionary relationship? are you kidding, look at your fucking eyes, they're both slanty unlike anyone else's. The Japanese came from Korea, who of course in turn came from China. Further China and Japan have been interacted for millenia.

Yes, the Greek alphabet is different, yet I can read 75% of their letters and could even decipher a huge amount of their vocabulary because of similarities. Latin even more so. Ethiopian is a modern language and sort of has nothing to do with this convo.

Unfortunately, despite the few similar characters I've gotten it on better advice that you're wrong, and mostly the languages are not as easily translated as you suggested. One could not read a Chinese website knowing only Japanese. Whereas I do just fine on spanish and french websites.
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