If this doesn't open some eyes... nothing will!
From the L.A. Times

1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County ( L.A. County has 10.2 million people)
are working for cash and not paying taxes. This was because they are
predominantly illegal immigrants, working without a green card.

2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.

4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien
Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

5. Nearly 25% of all inmates in California detention centers
are Mexican nationals here illegally.

6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.

7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles
are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.

8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.

9. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking.

10. In L.A. County 5.1 million people speak English.
3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L.A. County).


(All the above from the Los Angeles Times)



Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops,
but 29% are on welfare.

Over 70% of the United States' annual population growth
(and over 90% of California , Florida , and New York )
results from immigration.

The cost of immigration to the American taxpayer in 1997 was,
(after subtracting taxes immigrants pay), a NET $70 BILLION/
year, [Professor Donald Huddle, Rice University ]. The lifetime
fiscal impact (taxes paid minus services used) for the average
adult Mexican immigrant is a NEGATIVE number.

29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.

If they can come to this country to raise Hell and demonstrate by
the thousands, WHY can't they take charge over the corruption
in their own country?

We are a bunch of fools for letting this continue.



THE U.S. VS MEXICO


On February 15, 1998, the U.S. and Mexican soccer teams met at the Los Angeles Coliseum. The crowd was overwhelmingly pro-Mexican even though most lived in this country. They booed during the National Anthem and U.S. flags were held upside down. As the match progressed, supporters of the U.S. team were insulted, pelted with projectiles, punched and spat upon. Beer and trash were thrown at the U.S. players before and after the match. The coach of the U.S. team, Steve Sampson said, "This was the most painful experience I have ever had in this profession."

Did you know that immigrants from Mexico and other non-European countries
can come to this country and get preferences in jobs, education, and government contracts. It's called affirmative action or racial privilege. The Emperor of Japan or the President of Mexico could migrate here and immediately be eligible for special rights unavailable for Americans of European descent.

Corporate America has signed on to the idea that minorities and third world
immigrants should get special, privileged status. Some examples are Exxon,
Texaco, Merrill Lynch, Boeing, Paine Weber, Starbucks and many more.

DID YOU KNOW?

Did you know . that Mexico regularly intercedes on the side
of the defense in criminal cases involving Mexican nationals?

Did you know . that Mexico has NEVER extradited a Mexican
national accused of murder in the U.S. in spite of agreements to do so?
According to the L.A. Times, Orange County , California is home to 275
gangs with 17,000 members, 98% of which are Mexican and Asian.
How's your county doing?

According to a New York Times article dated May 19, 1994, 20 years after
the great influx of legal immigrants from Southeast Asia, 30% are still on
welfare compared to 8% of households nationwide. A Wall Street Journal
editorial dated December 5, 1994 quotes law enforcement officials as stat-
ing that Asian mobsters are the "greatest criminal challenge the country
faces." Not bad for a group that is still under 5% of the population.

Is education important to you? Here are the words of a teacher who spent
over 20 years in the Los Angeles School system. "Imagine teachers in classes
containing 30-40 students of widely varying attention spans and motivation,
many of whom aren't fluent in English.


Here is just a sampling of what happens with your open border policy.

If this doesn't open some eyes... nothing will!
From the L.A. Times

1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County ( L.A. County has 10.2 million people)
are working for cash and not paying taxes. This was because they are
predominantly illegal immigrants, working without a green card.

2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.

4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien
Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

5. Nearly 25% of all inmates in California detention centers
are Mexican nationals here illegally.

6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.

7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles
are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.

8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.

9. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking.

10. In L.A. County 5.1 million people speak English.
3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L.A. County).


(All the above from the Los Angeles Times)



Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops,
but 29% are on welfare.

Over 70% of the United States' annual population growth
(and over 90% of California , Florida , and New York )
results from immigration.

The cost of immigration to the American taxpayer in 1997 was,
(after subtracting taxes immigrants pay), a NET $70 BILLION/
year, [Professor Donald Huddle, Rice University ]. The lifetime
fiscal impact (taxes paid minus services used) for the average
adult Mexican immigrant is a NEGATIVE number.

29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.

If they can come to this country to raise Hell and demonstrate by
the thousands, WHY can't they take charge over the corruption
in their own country?

We are a bunch of fools for letting this continue.

Oops. I double posted. Sorry 'bout that.

This debate has nothing do with me being handicapped. I work and have a very comfortable life with probably the best insurrance money can buy. I cautious in my life and made preporations in case of a life changing injury. I was lucky compared to most. But when I was in the "the system" again with the "best" insurance money can buy I was still treated like shit and had to fight for nearly every claim.

Health care is something our country should face... all of you are so worried about rouge gangs of a crazy religious faction that you don't see the big picture of what is needed in the country. We are going on half a trillion dollars on a useless war. That money could better used HELPING AMERICANS. To claim to love America, you neocons sure hate Americans.

I'm not for open borders... my point was that if our borders are wide open how would you ever hope to stop another major terrorist attack. By definition is enivable. We must face that and move on... not dump down rabbit holes, using conventional war to fight and unconvential enemy.

EVERYTHING YOUR PARTY IS ABOUT IS WRONG... and the moderates in the country saw the right for what is really is... and you lost.

What else dickhead... let's go... I'll debate your ass into the ground. Why? Because I'm on the side that is right. Makes it easy to fight...

__________________
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

— Benjamin Franklin

The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.

John Adams from the " Treaty of Tripoly, article 11

I had to wait 3 days for that response? You know, I blame myself because I thought you might have something intelligent to say. That's a good lesson for us all....Always go with your gut instinct. Rarely will it fail you.

Let's take the points I actually understood one by one-shall we?

1) If you have the best insurance money can buy and your comfortable then shut up. Lots of people don't have the resources to be able to live a comfortable life-let alonesupport themselves. The reason why you probalby get treated like shit is because of your attitude. These nurses (and whomever else) have to deal with you personally. I deal with you over a computer and I don't like you. Imagine how they feel? Change your attitude, try to smile and and get through your thick skull that no one owes anyone a living, a healthcare-plan or a home. Maybe people will react to you differently if you said things like "thank you" or "I appreciate what you do". Try saying that to a soldier as well.

2) Another fallacy that you try to get across is that "If only we weren't in this war then the schools would be perfect or the homesless would have shelter and food or gas prices would drop or Babe Ruth would come back from the dead to face Randy Johnson in his prime" blah, blah, blah. You don't understand how money is spent and how the government spends it. Again, for you it's throwing money at problems which we learned long a go doesn't do anything except build more beauracracy (sp.) add debts and do everything but help those it is intended to help. Look no further than public schooling or anything else the government has run. You'll never understand that because despite your fancy office, great insurance benefits and ability to play chess you are an idiot when it comes to politics.

3) The Bush Administration has done a piss poor job on the border situation but both party's have failed us on that issue. The Democrats are beholden to unions and the Republicans are beholden to big business. The unions see that the more illegals that come over the border and work can become a union paying memebr eventually and big busines sees hiring small wage workers. Not to mention Spanish voters are becoming more and more improtant to both party's. My concern is security. The politicans care about voters. This was an issue long before Bush came to town, jerky.

4) I love the "everything about your party is wrong". Again, I'm not a registered Republican but that aside. You know, it is a statement of ignorance. It is a statement of anger and of really not being intuitive enough to really know the issues, what drives the issues and what drives politicans. I don't need to defend the Republican platform because it is not mine to defend. I don't think everything about the Democratic Party is worng. I think a lot of the people running that party are wrong. There is a HUGE difference and one I wouldn't expect you to comprehend.

5) And for the last time, the Democrats won this past election cycle because the Republicans weren't behaving like Republicans. The were 2nd rate Democrrats. A lot of conservatives sat this one out out of protest to the ridiculous spending that was going on, the corruption that was happening and the fact Bush has not run this war well. Most people want to see America win this war with the exception of people who think like you. those are the people more invested in Bush's defeat and humiliation than they are than seeing the country and it's peope move forward. EVERYTHING ABOUT YOUR MINDSET IS WRONG.

__________________
AMERICA LAND OF THE FREE HOME OF THE BRAVE--BECAUSE OF OUR CONSTITUTION.

Wow Rasta! That was great stuff. I love the fact that I wasn't even talking to you but I'll be happy and thrilled and honored to reply to my discussion with the good Nazi.

There's a cliche that says "go with your gut". it's a cliche because it has truth to it.Most cliche's have been handed down from generations. Some for hundreds of years. In my life, it's been a good way to be and has rarely if ever let me down. Most people who have confidence in themselves don't second guess themselves. What you think of that cliche is really your business and none of mine basically because I don't care.

I didn't view my statements about Nazi's "comfort level" as a criticism. Good for him if he's well off. Good for him that he can take care of himself and not rely on the system. However, he was moaning about having all of these advantages and being treated like shit. Well, I've had to see Physical therapists and whatever else on occassion and I can't complain about the treatment I was given. People were always very nice to me and I too them. I deduced that being he's such an asshole in here, he probably acts that way to others. All the other shit you mentioned was you just not interpreting it correctly. Finally, insinuating that I have no apathy for people on welfare or unemployment is wrong to the point of nearly offensive. If you were to say that I have disdain for those people who refuse to work and refuse to take responsibility for themselves then you would have been correct. Nearly everyone I have known through life has hit some pot-holes on occassion and the system has helped them (or me) out temporarily. But there is a difference between temporary welfare and learned behavior of expecting welfare. Hope you get the picture.

Adding the Babe Ruth analogy was mearly a joke. What it was meant to do was to once again show that there are some people around who want to blame Bush for anything and everything. Like any President he deserves blame on some things and on others he's being held as nothing more than a scapegoat.

A quote:

Here's where your Bullshit really leaves allot to be desired. You are a Fence Straddling High Maintenance BITCH when it comes to your politics and your view of either party. Your sole purpose is instigating arguments and ambushing fellow posters once you find out their political leanings. Stupidly believing so long as yourself is beholding to neither party this gives you the right to BITCH and MOAN, and blindly criticize wherever you please. Your political beliefs are laughable at best.....b/c in your playground mind you want politics to be perfect!! Keep dreaming Dumb Ass. The fact you are not mature enough to commit to either party......makes your political comments hilarious b/c you come with no game plan to improve either party; all you do is go into your APATHETIC rants how both parties are incompetent.

I liked this one so much I had to copy it but I'll answer you this way:

If having a high standard and high expectation for those who are elected (in part) to represent me then I am the "...High Maintanence BITCH" that you accuse me of being. For that not only do I not apologize for that but I'm surprised you don't have the same high expectations. Maybe because you don't and more and more of the country doesn't expect more from their local and state elected politicans that we have the corruptions issues that we have and the arrogance that is shown on an almost daily basis from both sides of the aisle. As far as "instigating" arguments, well yes of course. What else is this forum for? You'll notice however that I never go after those who put rationale and intellect behind their thoughts. I never go after people who can disagree with me honestly or disagree with Bush honestly and not make it a personal issue. I have debated 'Graybeard' on this site and others for years and have the utmost respect for him. The fact that our politics don't match is secondary. Who gives a shit? You are correct when you say that I don't endorse any political party. This is because it does in fact (as you pointed out) allow me the freedom to criticize either party without feeling like I'm going against anyone or letting anyone down. That is what a true independent is. You seem to be so stuck on this whole labeling issue that it completely narrows your world-view and I won't fall into that trap. If you choose too, then that's your problem. I like to think of myself as beyond that type of limited labeling. If you'd like to call my independence "immature" that's fine because again, I don't give a shit. The fact that I won't committ to a party is really my business. I'm not a good party guy because no one or party is perfect and certainly politics is not perfect. I never claimed it was or even claimed it should be. I do however believe in holding people accountable-whatever party they come from. You believe in holding only Republicans accountable. I think we should all question whose maturity we should be discussing.

I really have no idea what you are talking about as relates to the "merry-go-round" analogy. However, the notion that I am alone in my views is wishful thinking on your part. But, if it makes you feel better then go ahead and think it. However, if you look up all of the posts I have posted and then look and some of the responses I think it's fair to say that I've recieved a few more "great post(s)" than you have.


Finally, as far as "game plan" I have plenty to say on that matter. If you'd like to pursue that, let me know. However, I think I may be just a bit to detached from either party to suit you're liking.

WOW... You really hate brown people don' you. Doesn't matter what type of brown as long as they're brown.

__________________
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

— Benjamin Franklin

The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.

John Adams from the " Treaty of Tripoly, article 11

You are so absolutely pathetic that this is the last response you'll get from me. I have done more volunteer work and inner city work than you will do in three lifetimes. I have not a thing to prove to you and if you want to play the race card go ahead. I could care less. You have nothing of substance to add because you can't. Your an idiot and your clueless. You are not worth my energy or effort because I am superior to you. I just am. Not my fault-it's yours."Cause I ain't that bright! The difference between you and me is simple: People who talk it and people who walk it. May your remaining days be filled surrounded by people just like yourself: ignorant, racist, stupid, melancoly, embittered, self-loathing and patheitc. I know I've said the word 'pathetic' a lot in describing you because it just fits. "You are what you is".