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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-03-2008, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by smart makes a comeback View Post
All I am asking for is ONE objective expert, non discredited, not tied to the oil or utility industry, and not tied to right wing or libertarian politics or lobby groups

ONE...just one

Is this unreasonable ?

If there is any truth to what you say, this should be easy to do, yet no one can

You ice age arguement is so full of holes and so flawed, it is hard to know where to begin, and frakily, it is so steeped in a lack of knowledge, it is a little like explianing why water is wet.

But,,,,you could shut me up and impress the hell out of me by producing that ONE non bias credible expert....so go ahead....give me a name
Just answer my questions. what caused the end of the Ice Age?

What did we do at some point while in cooling, that caused us to be in warming?

If you think about it there is a logical conclusion. "The Elephant in the room", that libs never seem to see.
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Old 07-03-2008, 03:17 PM
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Expertise: Global climate change and the greenhouse effect, depletion of the stratospheric ozone layer, acid rain, air pollution, importance and future of the U.S. space program, energy resources and U.S. energy policy.

S. Fred Singer is internationally known for his work on energy and environmental issues. A pioneer in the development of rocket and satellite technology, he devised the basic instrument for measuring stratospheric ozone and was principal investigator on a satellite experiment retrieved by the space shuttle in 1990. He was the first scientist to predict that population growth would increase atmospheric methane--an important greenhouse gas.

Now President of The Science & Environmental Policy Project, a non-profit policy research group he founded in 1990, Singer is also Distinguished Research Professor at George Mason University and professor emeritus of environmental science at the University of Virginia. His previous government and academic positions include Chief Scientist, U.S. Department of Transportation (1987- 89); Deputy Assistant Administrator for Policy, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (1970-71); Deputy Assistant Secretary for Water Quality and Research, U.S. Department of the Interior (1967- 70); founding Dean of the School of Environmental and Planetary Sciences, University of Miami (1964-67); first Director of the National Weather Satellite Service (1962-64); and Director of the Center for Atmospheric and Space Physics, University of Maryland (1953-62).


Background, Dr. S. Fred Singer

1. There is no proof that the current warming is caused by the rise of greenhouse gases from human activity. Ice core records from the past 650,000 years show that temperature increases have preceded—not resulted from—increases in CO2 by hundreds of years, suggesting that the warming of the oceans is an important source of the rise in atmospheric CO2. As the dominant greenhouse gas, water vapor is far, far more important than CO2. Dire predictions of future warming are based almost entirely on computer climate models, yet these models do not accurately understand the role or water vapor—and, in any case, water vapor is not within our control. Plus, computer models cannot account for the observed cooling of much of the past century (1940–75), nor for the observed patterns of warming—what we call the “fingerprints.” For example, the Antarctic is cooling while models predict warming. And where the models call for the middle atmosphere to warm faster than the surface, the observations show the exact opposite.

The best evidence supporting natural causes of temperature fluctuations are the changes in cloudiness, which correspond strongly with regular variations in solar activity. The current warming is likely part of a natural cycle of climate warming and cooling that’s been traced back almost a million years. It accounts for the Medieval Warm Period around 1100 A.D., when the Vikings settled Greenland and grew crops, and the Little Ice Age, from about 1400 to 1850 A.D., which brought severe winters and cold summers to Europe, with failed harvests, starvation, disease, and general misery. Attempts have been made to claim that the current warming is “unusual” using spurious analysis of tree rings and other proxy data. Advocates have tried to deny the existence of these historic climate swings and claim that the current warming is "unusual" by using spurious analysis of tree rings and other proxy data, resulting in the famous “hockey–stick” temperature graph. The hockey-stick graph has now been thoroughly discredited.

2. If the cause of warming is mostly natural, then there is little we can do about it. We cannot control the inconstant sun, the likely origin of most climate variability. None of the schemes for greenhouse gas reduction currently bandied about will do any good; they are all irrelevant, useless, and wildly expensive:

Control of CO2 emissions, whether by rationing or elaborate cap–and–trade schemes
Uneconomic “alternative” energy, such as ethanol and the impractical “hydrogen economy”
Massive installations of wind turbines and solar collectors
Proposed projects for the sequestration of CO2 from smokestacks or even from the atmosphere
Ironically, even if CO2 were responsible for the observed warming trend, all these schemes would be ineffective—unless we could persuade every nation, including China, to cut fuel use by 80 percent!

3. Finally, no one can show that a warmer climate would produce negative impacts overall. The much–feared rise in sea levels does not seem to depend on short–term temperature changes, as the rate of sea–level increases has been steady since the last ice age, 10,000 years ago. In fact, many economists argue that the opposite is more likely—that warming produces a net benefit, that it increases incomes and standards of living. Why do we assume that the present climate is the optimum? Surely, the chance of this must be vanishingly small, and the economic history of past climate warmings bear this out.


The Great Global Warming Swindle: Newsroom: The Independent Institute
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Old 07-03-2008, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCOF View Post
Just answer my questions. what caused the end of the Ice Age?

What did we do at some point while in cooling, that caused us to be in warming?

If you think about it there is a logical conclusion. "The Elephant in the room", that libs never seem to see.
In any long term situation, there are always short term fluxuations....and becuse climate patterns exist, that does not negate the fact that what we have seen in the past century, is excluded from that process... .like I said...water is wet..it is called science....and an education..look into it


Now...how about the name of that expert who supports your view ?
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Old 07-03-2008, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smart makes a comeback View Post
In any long term situation, there are always short term fluxuations....and becuse climate patterns exist, that does not negate the fact that what we have seen in the past century, is excluded from that process... .like I said...water is wet..it is called science....and an education..look into it


Now...how about the name of that expert who supports your view ?
Nice try but you dodged the first and ignored the second.

Answer the questions. If you answer them you don't need non whatever the fuck you were asking for types of scientists. Just tell how did we move within 35 years from cooling to warming?
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Old 07-03-2008, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smart makes a comeback View Post
In any long term situation, there are always short term fluxuations....and becuse climate patterns exist, that does not negate the fact that what we have seen in the past century, is excluded from that process... .like I said...water is wet..it is called science....and an education..look into it


Now...how about the name of that expert who supports your view ?
31,000 scientists reject 'global warming' agenda

31000 seems like a consensus also doesn't it?
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-03-2008, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smart makes a comeback View Post
In any long term situation, there are always short term fluxuations....and becuse climate patterns exist, that does not negate the fact that what we have seen in the past century, is excluded from that process... .like I said...water is wet..it is called science....and an education..look into it


Now...how about the name of that expert who supports your view ?
Don't like that then find one that fits

Scientists who refute Global Warming - Google Search
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Old 07-03-2008, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by LCOF View Post
31,000 scientists reject 'global warming' agenda

31000 seems like a consensus also doesn't it?
31,000 ? what the hell do they do all day?
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 07-03-2008, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCOF View Post
Don't like that then find one that fits

Scientists who refute Global Warming - Google Search
Quote:
31,000 scientists reject 'global warming' agenda
The "oregon petition"...a discredited hoax

Quote:
Scientists who refute Global Warming - Google Search
Name the one who meets the criteria of "objective" and "non discredited"

Save some time...you wont find one
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Old 07-03-2008, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smart makes a comeback View Post
The "oregon petition"...a discredited hoax



Name the one who meets the criteria of "objective" and "non discredited"

Save some time...you wont find one
Gee I am to take you at your word when I don't believe algore the Carbon hog.
Don't insult my intelligence.

I had a hunch the WND article would not pass muster with a zealot.

So I offer a Google search find one that fits.

Meanwhile are you wimping out on the what happened within the past 35 years, that got us from cooling to warming? Why can't someone who claims to have all the answers, expects me to take you at your word, that the "Oregon petition" was discredited (with no proof I might add) and can't explain how we got from cooling to warming.

Answer to the first is it happened by NATURE Which indicates we mankind have no control over. Get it? There's the elephant in the room. It infers God, and you GW zealots want nothing to do with God in your religion.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 07-03-2008, 04:24 PM
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"There's the elephant in the room. It infers God, and you GW zealots want nothing to do with God in your religion."


Modern Republicanism is but an Amerikan Taliban.
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