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06-30-2008, 03:17 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: mountains of East TN
Posts: 10,592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyatt earp
Hell any one with a brain can get one, or modify one. and Assault weapon is not going to do you any good going up against the U.S. government. the only thing that is going to happen to you is either you die or go to jail.
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If one person does so, you are correct. However, in the event of a massive uprising that is a different story. You may still die but as you are so fond of pointing out
"Aye, fight and you may die, run, and you'll live... at least for a while. And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willin' to trade ALL the days, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take... OUR FREEDOM!"
Or is this just something you posted because you think it sounds cool but you don't really believe it?
__________________
Its better to have fussed and crabbed then never to have fussed at all - Lucy
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06-30-2008, 03:22 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Uptown Chicago and the Green Mill on a regular basis
Posts: 2,719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45
What do you think the meaning of the 2nd Amendment is, from a historical perspective? This is not a trick question, just an attempt at understanding. You see, being a white Southern Republican I tend to believe in the plain reading of a document. To me it states you can't deprive me of my right to bear arms. What does it mean to you and why?
Oh, by the way, please don't blur the question with your bullshit about homosexual rights or women's rights etc etc. If the constitution truly states the federal government can decide who can and can't get married then we need to accept that. Personally, I don't see those issues in the Constitution but thats just me. All I am interested in at this point is your understanding of the 2nd Amendment and why you believe it does not give me the right to own a gun or even a tank for that matter.
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Ummm...why would I bring homosexual rights or women's rights into a 2nd amendment discussion ?
Distractions are the refuge of others, not me
Anyway....I will accept the fact that you didnt address my question, that you agree that stats show guns in the home do not prevent crime. That was my point
That aside, I will answer your question.
The second amendment meqans exactly what it says, that citizens have the right to keep and bare arms within the confines of regulations
Now...unless someone beleives one should be able to own a stinger missile, theyAGREE with me, at least to a point, You want to own a tank, so clearly you dont. Thankfully, yours is not a widely shared belief
Sorry to disappont you, but I am not in the 'ban all guns" camp. What I do believe however, is that even the framers were wise enough in the late 18th century, to infuse the word "regulated" into the amendmant
The question is, just as is the case with any constitutional amendment, what if any, are the exceptions, mitigations and limitations.
I accept the SCOTUS decision, becuse I belive this issue will be revisted at a later time anyway.
My PROBLEM with it is, the judges who complain about legislating from the bench, legislated from the bench. They created a new law to overturn the handgun ban, as opposed to relating the decision to the 2nd amendmant.
Yes, citizens do have the right, withing limits, to keep arms, just dont delude yourself into thinking they make you "safe" becuse the stats prove that to be false
__________________
Argue with some..IGNORE the stupid
Yeah it hurts, you have been fucked by an Elephant !
"Happamia, sanoi kettu pihlajanmarjoista kun ei niihin yltänyt" ("Sour, said the fox about rowan berries, being unable to reach them"
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06-30-2008, 03:31 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: mountains of East TN
Posts: 10,592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smart makes a comeback
Ummm...why would I bring homosexual rights or women's rights into a 2nd amendment discussion ?
Distractions are the refuge of others, not me
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OH really??
Then why did you post this: No Gun regulations, (as thye first 4 words of the 2nd amendment mandates) yet you want final say over the status of a women’s uterus, what books people read, who consenting adults marry, and how they dispose of their flag etc etc etc
__________________
Its better to have fussed and crabbed then never to have fussed at all - Lucy
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06-30-2008, 03:32 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Down by the river
Posts: 1,606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45
If one person does so, you are correct. However, in the event of a massive uprising that is a different story. You may still die but as you are so fond of pointing out
"Aye, fight and you may die, run, and you'll live... at least for a while. And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willin' to trade ALL the days, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take... OUR FREEDOM!"
Or is this just something you posted because you think it sounds cool but you don't really believe it?
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I am talking one guy it is useless. there is not many people in America that will make a stand and when they do they kill the messenger then the message, this goes for the likes of Rush,Ann, Al Franklin, Barbra Streisand. Georg W., Al Gore, Hillary, Obama, McCain..etc.......etc..
People like you Nathan want to go off on your little trips, live in your own secluded place in Tenn and run around with a gun whenever you hear a "Boo" outside.
__________________
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." - Ronald Reagan
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06-30-2008, 03:33 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: mountains of East TN
Posts: 10,592
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"The second amendment meqans exactly what it says, that citizens have the right to keep and bare arms within the confines of regulations"
What part of the 2nd Amendment refers to regulations? Are you using the terminology "a well regulated militia" to mean the state or federal government has the right to pass gun laws?
__________________
Its better to have fussed and crabbed then never to have fussed at all - Lucy
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06-30-2008, 03:36 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Uptown Chicago and the Green Mill on a regular basis
Posts: 2,719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45
OH really??
Then why did you post this: No Gun regulations, (as thye first 4 words of the 2nd amendment mandates) yet you want final say over the status of a women’s uterus, what books people read, who consenting adults marry, and how they dispose of their flag etc etc etc
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So then YOU...LOL...bring homosexual rights or women's rights into a 2nd amendment discussion.
That was not a discussion of the 2nd amendment silly boy...go back and READ what I was responding to. It was a discussion about guns as protection, and HE brought up political agenda and the other topics.
You should know better then to try "gotcha" Bullshit with me nathan, you will lose every time
Quote:
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What part of the 2nd Amendment refers to regulations? Are you using the terminology "a well regulated militia" to mean the state or federal government has the right to pass gun laws?
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Stop asking questions you already know the answer to. You know that is exactly what I meant, and what the framers meant
I have no inclination to have a discussion of constitutional meaning with a literal word for word originalist, it is a waste of time
Good luck on the purchase of that tank
__________________
Argue with some..IGNORE the stupid
Yeah it hurts, you have been fucked by an Elephant !
"Happamia, sanoi kettu pihlajanmarjoista kun ei niihin yltänyt" ("Sour, said the fox about rowan berries, being unable to reach them"
Last edited by smart makes a comeback; 06-30-2008 at 03:39 PM.
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06-30-2008, 03:42 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Down by the river
Posts: 1,606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45
"The second amendment meqans exactly what it says, that citizens have the right to keep and bare arms within the confines of regulations"
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No what your trying to do is interpert the 2 nd amendment to define your scope....
Quote:
the 2nd Amendment:
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed
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it is real easy to say WTF? ok I got arms I can walk around in a flanel shirt with no sleeves on.  and I can keep my arms? ok 
__________________
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." - Ronald Reagan
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06-30-2008, 03:46 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: mountains of East TN
Posts: 10,592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smart makes a comeback
Ummm...why would I bring homosexual rights or women's rights into a 2nd amendment discussion ?
Distractions are the refuge of others, not me
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OH really??
Then why did you post this: No Gun regulations, (as thye first 4 words of the 2nd amendment mandates) yet you want final say over the status of a women’s uterus, what books people read, who consenting adults marry, and how they dispose of their flag etc etc etc
__________________
Its better to have fussed and crabbed then never to have fussed at all - Lucy
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06-30-2008, 03:53 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Uptown Chicago and the Green Mill on a regular basis
Posts: 2,719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Crowley
"Oh, by the way, please don't blur the question with your bullshit about homosexual rights or women's rights etc etc. ...'
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First, he fails to answer my question, then he fails to responde to my answer to HIS question...LOL
Every time I thnk MAYBE Nathan has a normal brain wave pattern, he lets me down...siiiiiigh
__________________
Argue with some..IGNORE the stupid
Yeah it hurts, you have been fucked by an Elephant !
"Happamia, sanoi kettu pihlajanmarjoista kun ei niihin yltänyt" ("Sour, said the fox about rowan berries, being unable to reach them"
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06-30-2008, 03:53 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: somewhere between a rock and a hard place
Posts: 5,491
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comeback. guns are great. they make loud noises when they are in use, but, why would i use a gun? wouldnt it tell the world someone just got iced? i could use a brick, bat, or my hands if i wanted to feel good about it? now, if i wernt to use a gun, and i wanted to distance myself somewhat when i did ice someone, then almost any old bow wih arrow would suit the job. and if i didnt care about collateral damage, i could use some propane. or short of that, use THEIR propane tank. and if i realy didnt care about collateral damage, id go for some chlorine. its not the gun that kills. its the person who is pissed off who kills.
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