Nope, again you are not getting this.

The price of oil is heavily determined by two things:

1) OPEC (remember, Bush pleaded unsuccessfully with these guys twice)

2) commodities markets and speculation. (deregulated on our end by this administration and we screwed ourselves)

There is a big reason why Hugo Chavez wants a South American OPEC rather than making the choice to deal with production (more or less oil).

Regardless of how much or little oil we produce the market is primarily of oil from other sources around the world. You are talking about a world oil market and how our market is effected by that. The other thing is our dollar does not men sh*t on the world market (weakest it has been in decades) and even if we produced more oil the fact that we have f*cked up the value of our own currency makes an effect on this too.

Now, I have not contradicted at all, you don't understand the politics of the 'free' market (not very free) and the way things work in 2008. Governments and groups like OPEC set prices and perameters based on favoring thier own best interests.

We have set prices and perameters which favor the CEOs of Exxon or BP, not the American public.

QUOTE=cat's meow;453139]Nope, again you are not getting this.

The price of oil is heavily determined by two things:

1) OPEC (remember, Bush pleaded unsuccessfully with these guys twice)

2) commodities markets and speculation. (deregulated on our end by this administration and we screwed ourselves)

There is a big reason why Hugo Chavez wants a South American OPEC rather than making the choice to deal with production (more or less oil).

Regardless of how much or little oil we produce the market is primarily of oil from other sources around the world. You are talking about a world oil market and how our market is effected by that. The other thing is our dollar does not men sh*t on the world market (weakest it has been in decades) and even if we produced more oil the fact that we have f*cked up the value of our own currency makes an effect on this too.

Now, I have not contradicted at all, you don't understand the politics of the 'free' market (not very free) and the way things work in 2008. Governments and groups like OPEC set prices and perameters based on favoring thier own best interests.

We have set prices and perameters which favor the CEOs of Exxon or BP, not the American public.[/quote]
__________________________________________________ _______________

The obvious result of the price controls was that U.S. consumers of crude oil paid about 50 percent more for imports than domestic production and U.S producers received less than world market price. In effect, the domestic petroleum industry was subsidizing the U.s. consumer.

In the absence of price controls U.S. exploration and production would certainly have been significantly greater. Higher petroleum prices faced by consumers would have resulted in lower rates of consumption: automobiles would have had higher miles per gallon sooner, homes and commercial buildings would have been better insulated and improvements in industrial energy efficiency would have been greater than they were during this period. As a consequence, the United States would have been less dependent on imports in 1979-1980 and the price increase in response to Iranian and Iraqi supply interruptions would have been significantly less.

With minimal Y2K problems and growing US and world economies the price continued to rise throughout 2000 to a post 1981 high. Between April and October, 2000 three successive OPEC quota increases totaling 3.2 million barrels per day were not able to stem the price increases. Prices finally started down following another quota increase of 500,000 effective November 1, 2000.

See where you are wrong, "MORE" Production "decreased" Prices.....

The loss of production capacity in Iraq and Venezuela combined with increased OPEC production to meet growing international demand led to the erosion of excess oil production capacity. In mid 2002, there was over 6 million barrels per day of excess production capacity and by mid-2003 the excess was below 2 million. During much of 2004 and 2005 the spare capacity to produce oil was under a million barrels per day. A million barrels per day is not enough spare capacity to cover an interruption of supply from most OPEC producers.

Other major factors contributing to the current level of prices include a weak dollar and the continued rapid growth in Asian economies and their petroleum consumption. The 2005 hurricanes and U.S. refinery problems associated with the conversion from MTBE as an additive to ethanol have contributed to higher prices.

History and Analysis -Crude Oil Prices

So yes, you are minimally correct in your assertion about the strength of the Dollar, by far and away Supply is the sinlge most critical isssue.

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There are those, I know, who will say that the liberation of humanity, the freedom of man and mind, is nothing but a dream. They are right. It is the American dream.
~Archibald MacLeish

In bold.....I can't disagree with you more, Amazed. It is far more complicated than that. That is a very WW-II style of thinking being applied to a very different problem set. And trust me, the US military understands this. Yes, killing Al Qaeda is part of "winning," but Iraqi social, geo-political, economic aspects are also very much a part of the "winning"....and probably much more so at this point.

I'll give you an example...do you think we won Vietnam? On paper, using your definition, we easily did. We won every battle; killed far more of them than they did of us; bombed the shit out of them, etc. When we left South Vietnam in 1973, the South had a far larger and better trained army than the North. But, do you think we "won" Vietnam? Most people would say no...as within two years the South fell to the communists. We won the military battle, but lost the social and political battles....and, consequently, lost the war. Don't underestimate those aspects of this kind of fight.


Fair enough....I'll guess we'll see.

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The Lone Ranger of the AWE liberal elitists.....who was that masked man???

And now, I'm the Elitist of liberal Elitists...

There was no need for George Bush to plead with OPEC ministers twice?

Again, negotiated prices.

Demand has gone down here, prices at all time high now.

Again, speculation drives the price up.

I'll give you an example...do you think we won Vietnam? On paper, using your definition, we easily did. We won every battle; killed far more of them than they did of us; bombed the shit out of them, etc. When we left South Vietnam in 1973, the South had a far larger and better trained army than the North. But, do you think we "won" Vietnam? Most people would say no...as within two years the South fell to the communists. We won the military battle, but lost the social and political battles....and, consequently, lost the war. Don't underestimate those aspects of this kind of fight.

We did not fight Vietnam to win..and our behavior in the end insured the demise of any and all objectives we achieved. I would not underestimate those aspects, but in the case of Vietnam we are observing in hindsight...on Iraq, the Jury is still out..and our behavior in the aftermath will again determine the success of the objectives..THIS is what I fear we may not have learned.

__________________
There are those, I know, who will say that the liberation of humanity, the freedom of man and mind, is nothing but a dream. They are right. It is the American dream.
~Archibald MacLeish

Can you explain the statement in bold? I've seen estimates that 3 million + North Vietnamese were killed during the war....and that we dropped more weapons on the North than we did on Germany during WWII.

__________________
The Lone Ranger of the AWE liberal elitists.....who was that masked man???

And now, I'm the Elitist of liberal Elitists...

Republicans just believe what they want to. Facts, reality and common sense don't mean much to them. There is a forever supply of oil out there and we are fighting a winnable "war" in Iraq where we will turn the Iraqis into Germany circa 1950.

What idiots

There was no need for George Bush to plead with OPEC ministers twice?

Again, negotiated prices.

Demand has gone down here, prices at all time high now.

Worldwide demand is well up, and increasing....

The situation in the United States is that we aren't ALLOWING to;

A) To Explore for more...
B) DRILL for more
C) Build more Refineries to HANDLE more.

Bush had no choice but to go to them.....he, as would be ANY US President, handcuffed by Domestic Policy.

__________________
There are those, I know, who will say that the liberation of humanity, the freedom of man and mind, is nothing but a dream. They are right. It is the American dream.
~Archibald MacLeish

(smile) Facts..anything YOU determine to "true"? I just Posted all the "facts" you will need to make a rational decision....

__________________
There are those, I know, who will say that the liberation of humanity, the freedom of man and mind, is nothing but a dream. They are right. It is the American dream.
~Archibald MacLeish

What? Do some reading and see what LBJ said about Vietnam...but you better then compare that to what Eisenhower and Kennedy said before LBJ (or Nixon after). The goal post changed along the way just like in Iraq and this is the beginning of the end when you decide to wage war.

In regards to Vietnam, if you want to think we held off the Communist Chinese or Soviets from further expansion into Indochina/Indonesia then fine...I guess we were successful. But, the tradiational Nationalist Vietnamese goal was to re-unify Vietnam regardless of Communism or not...they won that war.