Agreed, we should lead by example...unfortunately, Bush has been a bad one.

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"All the problems we face in the United States today can be traced to an unenlightened immigration policy on the part of the American Indian."

~ Pat Paulsen for President

Very short and to the point. I like that.

If your talking about access to lawyers and that type of thing then what it seems to say is that your more interested in treating terrorism (& terrosists) as more of a criminal process that should follow the laws that other Americans have which I don't agree with. I don't give a shit about terrorists, to be honest. I think from what I've read the life they have at places like Gitmo is probably a much better life than they've had from wherever they came from initially. I think if you were to look up the code of ethics involved in the type of living the detainees have at Gitmo you'd be very surprised. Oh and by the way, there is a Red Cross office right in Gitmo.

Fact Sheet
Status of Detainees at Guantanamo
2002

United States Policy.
# The United States is treating and will continue to treat all of the individuals detained at Guantanamo humanely and, to the extent appropriate and consistent with military necessity, in a manner consistent with the principles of the Third Geneva Convention of 1949.

# The President has determined that the Geneva Convention applies to the Taliban detainees, but not to the al-Qaida detainees.

# Al-Qaida is not a state party to the Geneva Convention; it is a foreign terrorist group. As such, its members are not entitled to POW status.

# Although we never recognized the Taliban as the legitimate Afghan government, Afghanistan is a party to the Convention, and the President has determined that the Taliban are covered by the Convention. Under the terms of the Geneva Convention, however, the Taliban detainees do not qualify as POWs.

# Therefore, neither the Taliban nor al-Qaida detainees are entitled to POW status.

# Even though the detainees are not entitled to POW privileges, they will be provided many POW privileges as a matter of policy.

All detainees at Guantanamo are being provided:

* three meals a day that meet Muslim dietary laws
* water
* medical care
* clothing and shoes
* shelter
* showers
* soap and toilet articles
* foam sleeping pads and blankets
* towels and washcloths
* the opportunity to worship
* correspondence materials, and the means to send mail
* the ability to receive packages of food and clothing, subject to security screening

The detainees will not be subjected to physical or mental abuse or cruel treatment. The International Committee of the Red Cross has visited and will continue to be able to visit the detainees privately. The detainees will be permitted to raise concerns about their conditions and we will attempt to address those concerns consistent with security.

Housing. We are building facilities in Guantanamo more appropriate for housing the detainees on a long-term basis. The detainees now at Guantanamo are being housed in temporary open-air shelters until these more long-term facilities can be arranged. Their current shelters are reasonable in light of the serious security risk posed by these detainees and the mild climate of Cuba.

POW Privileges the Detainees will not receive. The detainees will receive much of the treatment normally afforded to POWs by the Third Geneva Convention. However, the detainees will not receive some of the specific privileges afforded to POWs, including:

* access to a canteen to purchase food, soap, and tobacco
* a monthly advance of pay
* the ability to have and consult personal financial accounts
* the ability to receive scientific equipment, musical instruments, or sports outfits

Many detainees at Guantanamo pose a severe security risk to those responsible for guarding them and to each other. Some of these individuals demonstrated how dangerous they are in uprisings at Mazar-e-Sharif and in Pakistan. The United States must take into account the need for security in establishing the conditions for detention at Guantanamo.

Background on Geneva Conventions. The Third Geneva Convention of 1949 is an international treaty designed to protect prisoners of war from inhumane treatment at the hands of their captors in conflicts covered by the Convention. It is among four treaties concluded in the wake of WWII to reduce the human suffering caused by war. These four treaties provide protections for four different classes of people: the military wounded and sick in land conflicts; the military wounded, sick and shipwrecked in conflicts at sea; military persons and civilians accompanying the armed forces in the field who are captured and qualify as prisoners of war; and civilian non-combatants who are interned or otherwise found in the hands of a party (e.g. in a military occupation) during an armed conflict.

And what was the motive for invading Iraq? Everybody gives a different reason, what's yours? That Saddam tried to kill his daddy? Creaqting a market for weapons manufactured by his friends in the industrial/military complex? Or everybody's favorite, OIL? (whatever that means?)

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It actually makes no good sense to me, therefore I have no idea what Bush and his crony's motive's were. It could be any one of those things, or simply the arrogance that he can do whatever he wants, which seems to me to be his usual persona.

SteveK. Your fact sheet is irrelevent to me. The FBI just passed an investigation that states that they did not participate in torture (those words not exactly used), but that they did witness it.

As far as the Geneva convention, all it would take is our government stating that they were Al Qaeda, and not the Taliban.

Whether Al Qaeda is a part of the Geneva Convention or not is also irrelevent, as the United States has entered into other pacts that agree to adhere to basic human rights. Never mind that adhering to basic human rights is the right and moral thing to do, the very fact that we chose to break these pacts (and then tried to justify it) makes everyone who is a United States citizen a liar and a hypocrit. I do not like my representatives to make me out a liar.

You're right on it not making any sense. But it sure doesn't make a lot of sense why someone would go to all the hassle of becoming president and then risk everything including your legacy in history because one day you get a bug up your ass and the arrogance takes over. The fact is, the reasons I cited previously are BS. Yeah, it is about oil, which may have been reason enough when you consider the consequences of access to that oil being interrupted by wackjob zealots.

I'm guessing arrogance ain't it at all. Instead, the reason we're in Iraq is because Bush and his people decided this was as good a place as any to start standing up to the terrorists, and that once freed of Saddam the Iraqi "people" would provide a good base from which to fight this war.

I ain't saying they went about things the right way. Maybe there was a better way to dump Saddam; get a sane government working somewhere in the mideast; and protect the access to the oil thereby preventing a worldwide economic meltdown.

Again, sorry, without a motive just putting the blame on "Bush and his cronies" demonstrates a clear-cut idealogical bent on your part...but it doesn't make much sense either. But don't worry, not being able to come up with a reason for all this doesn't make you any different than the other people whose posts are slanted more towards politics than making any sense.

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Wrong. The Geneva Convention clearly states who qualifies, and who doesn't. They don't..now..this also shows youen't READ the GC..you do know that it states that ALL Prisoners can be held until the cessation of hostilities??

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There are those, I know, who will say that the liberation of humanity, the freedom of man and mind, is nothing but a dream. They are right. It is the American dream.
~Archibald MacLeish

There is no such thing as "Bush bashing"

There is only the consensus of objective educated people that he is an inept and failed President

The fact that he is a traitor, a lair, a coward an untreated drug addict and a bumbling dunderhead with no command of simple english, are side issues

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Argue with some..IGNORE the stupid

Yeah it hurts, you have been fucked by an Elephant !

"Happamia, sanoi kettu pihlajanmarjoista kun ei niihin yltänyt" ("Sour, said the fox about rowan berries, being unable to reach them"