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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2008, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Tileman View Post
After rereading this last post (maybe missed it in original post) I can see a legitimate argument to both sides of this issue.

How many people are aware that an electrical shock *OFTEN* brings a person out of a seizure? YES! it's true! Science behind this fact is not studied to any large extent but it was previously used in decades past to STOP an existing seizure!

My exwife had seizures lasting from 5 seconds to 5 minutes! No way could I ever tell how long one would last. During all those Video EEG's during hospital stays could they tell any difference either! My exwife averaged over 230 seizures per year until her last brain surgery (left frontal lobe removal). After that her seizures dropped to about half as many per year and often lasting no more than 45-90 seconds....

It is *possible* an officer knew that electrical shock was capable of ending a seizure!
Wow, your experience is amazing. Unfortunately there are those that medication cannot help. I went to school with a kid who suffered seizures like that. He was never allowed to drive a car, experience sports, live anywhere close to a "normal" life. Unfortunately, his story did not have a happy ending. That you lasted 9 years with that kind of history means that you are an extraordinary person. Kudos.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2008, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by freedomlover1 View Post
I read the article in it's entirety. They "admitted to smoking pot", nowhere does it state the police found a pot pipe. The paramedic report sounds exactly as one would describe someone coming out of a grand mal seizure. They are scared, disorientated, AND their brain still isn't firing right. Does that warrent extreme measures in your book? What if this was a child of yours?

Again, I will state that grand mals are extremely scary to the loved ones dealing with them. I was young when I had to learn to deal with my grandmothers. In fact, I experienced 2 of them BEFORE my family even bothered to tell me she had seizures. I spent a great deal of time with her, and therefore had no choice but to learn how to cope with them. Scary for a child, but I would have wanted to do serious damage to anyone that harmed her while she was in that state.
"According to the ambulance report, a paramedic found the marijuana pipe in Blake Dwyer’s pocket. Haire says Blake was wearing gym shorts that didn’t have a pocket at the time. The report stated that he was very combative and uncontrollable. After finding the pipe, the report indicates the paramedics believed he may have been overdosing on narcotics.

The ambulance team asked for Corinth police.

According to the police report provided by the Dwyers’ lawyer when Corinth police declined to release it, an officer Tasered Blake Dwyer only twice.

“[Reporting officer] issued a ‘drive stun’ with the Taser to Dwyer’s upper back to gain compliance so he would stop fighting with the fireman. … Once inside the ambulance Dwyer was once again issued a ‘drive stun’ to gain compliance,” the report states.

The paramedic report also mentions two instances of the officer using the Taser.

But photographs taken the next day show 24 post burns, representing 12 separate instances of the posts of the Taser being applied to Blake Dwyer’s back and underarm.

“The police were saying he was having a ‘bad trip,’” Haire said. “But the blood work only showed trace amounts of THC, evidence of his having smoked pot the night before — no trace of any opiate or psychedelic drug that would cause a bad trip.”

Deana Dwyer said it took several days for her son to act completely normal again after the experience.

I’m mad at him over the marijuana,” she said. “But smoking marijuana the night before had nothing to do with his seizure. He had them before, and he’s had three since.”

The paramedics took Blake to a local hospital and then he was transferred to Children’s Medical Center Dallas. A neurologist who checked Blake on July 24 wrote, “Robert [Blake] Dwyer has epilepsy with postictal confusion. (Don’t try to restrain him. Talk calmly and try to guide him to a safe area.)”

Deana Dwyer said she visited Corinth police to try to figure out what happened. She is not sure which supervisor she spoke to, she said, but she was not reassured.

“He told me he had a possible kidnapping to worry about. He told me he was going on vacation. He said he’d look into it but he was really busy right now. I called later, but they said he wasn’t in.

“Tasing Blake was one of the worst things they could have done,” she said. “He comes out of the seizures not knowing where he is and scared to death. Shocking him 12 times didn’t calm him down. On the phone, I could hear him yelling ‘OK, OK, OK, OK, OK, OK, OK’ and then screaming when they would hit him again. If it wasn’t helping, why did they keep doing it?”

Blake wasn’t a criminal the police were trying to arrest, Haire said. He was a 16-year-old boy having a seizure, and he needed help.

“I have written letters to the editor commending police and firefighters,” Haire said. “I understand what a thankless job it is. I’m not trying to make their job harder. But when I saw that he had been hit with a Taser 12 times, something cracked inside. I couldn’t believe it. It is an absolute abuse of power.”

Haire said he is upset that both the police and paramedic reports stated that his client was Tasered twice when there is abundant proof and several witnesses to prove that was not true. And he believes the police should have addressed Deana Dwyer’s concerns instead of ignoring them.

Someone who knows Haire saw her plight that day in the police lobby and recommended she contact him.

“I’m trying to raise awareness. Somebody told her, ‘You need to contact Rocky Haire.’ If they hadn’t done that, she wouldn’t have complained.

“There’s not a lot of money to be made by suing a city,” Haire said. “The law is designed to make it not worth it. But we’re not just going to quit on this.”
http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedcontent/dws/drc/localnews/stories/DRC_Taser_0518.3dae5bb.html"
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2008, 10:31 PM
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Here is the entire article;

Police taser 16 yr old boy over 12 times for having a seizure
Category: Article, Media Coverage, News |
Blake Dwyer remembers pain:

The agonizing burn of electrical shock.

And shouting.

And fear.

“I thought a swarm of wasps was after me,” the 17-year-old Guyer High School athlete said. “I was trying to fight them off.”

He doesn’t remember the epileptic seizure he suffered July 18, 2007, when he was 16.

He doesn’t remember fighting to keep from being tied to a stretcher or hitting a paramedic.

His brother, Travis Baker, 17, remembers all of it. He recalls screaming at Corinth police to stop shocking Blake with a Taser. His mother, Deana, remembers hearing Travis crying on the telephone.

“He was saying, ‘Blake is having a seizure, and they’re hurting him,’” she said.

And in case they should forget Blake’s experience, they have photographs of 12 separate sets of burns from the double posts of a Taser.

Corinth police did not respond to a message asking for comment about the incident. Corinth city attorney Michael Bucek won’t release records because the city expects litigation, he said. He did say there was no internal affairs investigation into the incident.

“The only thing I can say is that we believe this is a frivolous lawsuit with no merit,” Bucek said.

No lawsuit has been filed yet. Deana Dwyer sought the advice of Denton lawyer Rocky Haire, who said he has been trying to work with Corinth police for an out-of-court resolution with no luck so far.

“Deana just wants them to acknowledge they did it wrong,” Haire said. “She tried to tell them their officers needed some training on what to do with epileptic seizures and postictal psychosis, but they just blew her off.”

Haire contacted an investigator with the Texas Municipal Intergovernmental Risk Pool, which insures city governments against lawsuits. Haire said the investigator told him that a check of the Taser shows it was fired 15 times within five or six minutes that day.

Mike Rains, a representative of the TMI Risk Pool, said there is an ongoing investigation into the incident, and talks have been initiated with Haire. He would not confirm the extent of the Taser use.

“I believe it was a number of times,” Rains said.

According to information from the Epilepsy Foundation, epilepsy is a neurological condition that sometimes produces brief disturbances in the normal electrical functions of the brain with intermittent bursts of much more intense electrical energy. The resulting seizure may affect a person’s consciousness, movements or sensations for a short time. A person suffering a seizure will fall down, froth at the mouth and jerk uncontrollably.

Postictal psychosis following a seizure may include delusions, depressive or manic behavior, aggression or bizarre thoughts and behavior.

Tasers can be used in different ways. A Taser has a cartridge that sends two prongs out on wires. When the trigger is pulled, the probes burst out of the cartridge and can travel up to 21 feet to reach the target. Then electricity travels though the wires and arcs between the probes.

That affects the sensory nerves, and the electricity overrides the central nervous system, which means the muscles can’t move. The person falls to the ground, briefly immobilized.

Or, the officer has the option of pulling off the cartridge and simply pressing the Taser against the skin. That causes electrical pain but does not immobilize and is called a “drive stun.” It is a way to control someone using pain.

Blake Dwyer had been experiencing grand mal epileptic seizures for about a year, possibly brought on, his mother said, by a concussion.

He and Travis spent the preceding night with friends. They admit they smoked marijuana from a pipe provided by one of the other boys but insist they used no other illegal substances. Blake’s blood workup the next morning showed only traces of marijuana in his system.

They were getting ready for football practice about 10:30 a.m. Travis said he saw Blake bend over to tie his tennis shoes.

“He looked up, and his eyes rolled back in his head,” Travis said. “He fell over and started frothing at the mouth and jerking. I knew he was having a seizure. I was there when he had the others, and I knew what to do.”

Travis said he had learned to calm Blake, who comes out of the seizures with postictal psychosis, a condition that accompanies seizures in some patients to varying degrees. Blake becomes disoriented and frightened, he said. He panics and tries to fight, especially if someone tries to restrain him.

On that morning, Travis began talking to Blake, and some of his fear subsided. Someone at the house called 911, and an ambulance arrived. Paramedics told Travis to step back, and they strapped Blake to a gurney.

“I tried to tell them that he’s claustrophobic and he couldn’t stand to be strapped down,” Travis said. “But they wouldn’t listen to me.”

According to the paramedic report, Blake was combative. He was making incoherent sounds and fighting against the restraints. He freed his arms and, still strapped to the gurney by the lower part of his body, he began flailing his arms. He struck a firefighter in the face.

According to the ambulance report, a paramedic found the marijuana pipe in Blake Dwyer’s pocket. Haire says Blake was wearing gym shorts that didn’t have a pocket at the time. The report stated that he was very combative and uncontrollable. After finding the pipe, the report indicates the paramedics believed he may have been overdosing on narcotics.

The ambulance team asked for Corinth police.

According to the police report provided by the Dwyers’ lawyer when Corinth police declined to release it, an officer Tasered Blake Dwyer only twice.

“[Reporting officer] issued a ‘drive stun’ with the Taser to Dwyer’s upper back to gain compliance so he would stop fighting with the fireman. … Once inside the ambulance Dwyer was once again issued a ‘drive stun’ to gain compliance,” the report states.

The paramedic report also mentions two instances of the officer using the Taser.

But photographs taken the next day show 24 post burns, representing 12 separate instances of the posts of the Taser being applied to Blake Dwyer’s back and underarm.

“The police were saying he was having a ‘bad trip,’” Haire said. “But the blood work only showed trace amounts of THC, evidence of his having smoked pot the night before — no trace of any opiate or psychedelic drug that would cause a bad trip.”

Deana Dwyer said it took several days for her son to act completely normal again after the experience.

“I’m mad at him over the marijuana,” she said. “But smoking marijuana the night before had nothing to do with his seizure. He had them before, and he’s had three since.”

The paramedics took Blake to a local hospital and then he was transferred to Children’s Medical Center Dallas. A neurologist who checked Blake on July 24 wrote, “Robert [Blake] Dwyer has epilepsy with postictal confusion. (Don’t try to restrain him. Talk calmly and try to guide him to a safe area.)”

Deana Dwyer said she visited Corinth police to try to figure out what happened. She is not sure which supervisor she spoke to, she said, but she was not reassured.

“He told me he had a possible kidnapping to worry about. He told me he was going on vacation. He said he’d look into it but he was really busy right now. I called later, but they said he wasn’t in.

“Tasing Blake was one of the worst things they could have done,” she said. “He comes out of the seizures not knowing where he is and scared to death. Shocking him 12 times didn’t calm him down. On the phone, I could hear him yelling ‘OK, OK, OK, OK, OK, OK, OK’ and then screaming when they would hit him again. If it wasn’t helping, why did they keep doing it?”

Blake wasn’t a criminal the police were trying to arrest, Haire said. He was a 16-year-old boy having a seizure, and he needed help.

“I have written letters to the editor commending police and firefighters,” Haire said. “I understand what a thankless job it is. I’m not trying to make their job harder. But when I saw that he had been hit with a Taser 12 times, something cracked inside. I couldn’t believe it. It is an absolute abuse of power.”

Haire said he is upset that both the police and paramedic reports stated that his client was Tasered twice when there is abundant proof and several witnesses to prove that was not true. And he believes the police should have addressed Deana Dwyer’s concerns instead of ignoring them.

Someone who knows Haire saw her plight that day in the police lobby and recommended she contact him.

“I’m trying to raise awareness. Somebody told her, ‘You need to contact Rocky Haire.’ If they hadn’t done that, she wouldn’t have complained.

“There’s not a lot of money to be made by suing a city,” Haire said. “The law is designed to make it not worth it. But we’re not just going to quit on this.”
Image of Taser use lingers | Denton Record-Chronicle | News for Denton County, Texas | Local News
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2008, 10:38 PM
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That you lasted 9 years with that kind of history means that you are an extraordinary person. Kudos.
I was married to her for better or worse and that was exactly what I lived to the absolute best of my ability. We ended in divorce which I take my full 50% of fault be it right or wrong I still accept it. It was not her epilepsy that caused our divorce nearly as much as her unwilling to work with marital therapy, make some sacrifices and meet me part way. My wife lost her drivers license after she had a car wreck in 1994 because she was in a seizure. We stayed married another 6 1/2 years and I did NOT mind being the only driver in the home.

In any event, I know as much or more about epilespy as anyone on this forum with the exception of a neurologist showing up and trumping me! I know all the medications, dosages allowed in trial drugs, etc. I am very very very well versed on this topic. I spent years and years in the University of Oklahoma Medial School Library studying epilepsy, drugs used, scientific reports, blind study medications (she was on all those), as well as the psychological effects like Cognitive thinking ability being diminished, libido being non-existant, intamacy abnormalities! All of those I studied.

I even frequent a few Epilepsy websites and try to help *Spouses of epileptics* understand what this is reall all about and why their spouse has lost certain abilities to communicate/conjoin, etc...
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Old 05-20-2008, 10:45 PM
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Well Oceanbreeze, there seems to be some discrepencies between the paramedic/police reports and photo evidence/eye witness reports. If this should go any further, I will assume we will learn whether the shorts he was wearing had pockets, or if he was tasered 12 times instead of the two the police are admitting to.

Have you any experience with epilepsy? Grand mal seizures? If this were your child, would you not be asking some serious questions?
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2008, 10:46 PM
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Tileman; kudos to you. In VA you lose your driver's license for 1 year after your last epileptic seizure, my neighbor had had one and lost his.

Freedom; I was mis-dx'd from ages 3-12 as epileptic, I was on Dilatin for 9 years. In 1980 my mom took to me to Mayo Clinic, Rochester, MN, to get a proper dx. So, unfortunately, I can relate to the circumstances and have been in his shoes, minus the police.

I don't think the 16 year old boy should have been tasered 12x, but the pot pipe probably factored into it.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2008, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Tileman View Post
I was married to her for better or worse and that was exactly what I lived to the absolute best of my ability. We ended in divorce which I take my full 50% of fault be it right or wrong I still accept it. It was not her epilepsy that caused our divorce nearly as much as her unwilling to work with marital therapy, make some sacrifices and meet me part way. My wife lost her drivers license after she had a car wreck in 1994 because she was in a seizure. We stayed married another 6 1/2 years and I did NOT mind being the only driver in the home.

In any event, I know as much or more about epilespy as anyone on this forum with the exception of a neurologist showing up and trumping me! I know all the medications, dosages allowed in trial drugs, etc. I am very very very well versed on this topic. I spent years and years in the University of Oklahoma Medial School Library studying epilepsy, drugs used, scientific reports, blind study medications (she was on all those), as well as the psychological effects like Cognitive thinking ability being diminished, libido being non-existant, intamacy abnormalities! All of those I studied.

I even frequent a few Epilepsy websites and try to help *Spouses of epileptics* understand what this is reall all about and why their spouse has lost certain abilities to communicate/conjoin, etc...
Again, kudos to you. My grandmother used a cocktail of phenobarbitol and dilantin and it worked pretty good for her. Her's was caused by a brown recluse spider bite that turned into spinal meningitis. Unfortunately, the more seizures, the more scar tissue, the more seizures, ect. It affected her behavior more the older she became, and although I have no scientific/medical proof, I do believe that it played a part in her having two strokes and her dementia. It was sad to see her slipping away from me, and see her become vicious at times.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2008, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by oceanbreeze View Post
Tileman; kudos to you. In VA you lose your driver's license for 1 year after your last epileptic seizure, my neighbor had had one and lost his.

Freedom; I was mis-dx'd from ages 3-12 as epileptic, I was on Dilatin for 9 years. In 1980 my mom took to me to Mayo Clinic, Rochester, MN, to get a proper dx. So, unfortunately, I can relate to the circumstances and have been in his shoes, minus the police.

I don't think the 16 year old boy should have been tasered 12x, but the pot pipe probably factored into it.
I would hate to have to deal with druggies/drunks on a daily basis. I think that it would probably skew my thinking also.

What I find interesting is that they state they only found trace amounts of THC, and no other drugs. Did they omit any medications he was taking, or was he not taking medications? Hmmm
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2008, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by freedomlover1 View Post
I would hate to have to deal with druggies/drunks on a daily basis. I think that it would probably skew my thinking also.

What I find interesting is that they state they only found trace amounts of THC, and no other drugs. Did they omit any medications he was taking, or was he not taking medications? Hmmm
True. If he was known to have seizures, he would be on meds, the meds should have shown up in the tox reports.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:28 PM
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True. If he was known to have seizures, he would be on meds, the meds should have shown up in the tox reports.
No. there are no present medications used for epilepsy that would show up on a normal toxicology nor controlled substances report. Those are not tested unless they are specifically targetted... Also, NO epileptic medication that I am aware of has been linked to any physically eratic behavior. What I mean is that the present epileptic medications should NOT be any factor to that persons irratic behavior unless that person has STOPPED using a medication against a doctors orders.

FYI- Most epileptic medications are so DAMN STRONG that a person not use to taking those meds in that high quantity would likely DIE from a single dosage! Those medications requires a long peroid to build up a tolerance and must also be taken out of the system over a period of time without serious negative recourse.

FYI- My exwife endured the removal of 16 EEG strips (latex coated ribbons with magents on them) from inside her cranial cap (means strips laid on top of the brain iteself underneath the skull) with morphine and Demerol. During that 30 minute process she was given 20CC of Morphine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! To most people (including drug addicts) that would be a massive over dose and certain death! But to an epileptic that is use to taking so much medication it was not a problem because their system is use to it!

That should give you some some idea how strong some epileptic medications really are!
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