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Old 03-17-2008, 09:03 AM
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Default The Crumbling U.S. Empire

The crumbling U.S. empire

Posted: March 16, 2008
6:57 pm Eastern

© 2008

House Democrats recently adopted a budget with massive tax hikes, many of which are directed at those Americans who can least afford them.

By allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire in 2010, this budget will raise income taxes not only on those in the highest income brackets, but raises the lowest bracket from 10 percent to 15 percent as well. Estates would again be taxed at 55 percent. The child tax credit would drop from $1,000 to $500. Senior citizens relying on investment income would be hurt by increases in dividend and capital gains taxes. It's not just that the Democrats want to raises taxes on the rich; they want to raises taxes on everybody.

The problem is, policing the world is expensive, and if elected officials insist upon continuing to fund our current foreign policy, the money has to come from somewhere. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have already cost us more than $1 trillion.

The Democrats' budget gives the president all the funding he needs for his foreign policy, so one wonders how serious they ever were about ending the war. While Democrats propose to tax and spend, many Republicans aim to borrow and spend, which hurts the taxpayer just as much in the long run.

Supporting a welfare state is expensive as well. More than half of our budget goes to mandatory entitlements. The total cost of government now eats up more than half of our national income, as calculated by Americans for Tax Reform, and government is growing at an unprecedented rate. Our current financial situation is completely untenable, and the worst part is, as government is becoming more and more voracious, the economy is shrinking.


The bottom line is that Washington has a serious spending addiction. While both parties debate how to raise the revenue, both parties seem happy to spend more than $3 trillion of your money in various ways.

While some in Washington criticize the war in Iraq, very few are criticizing the interventionist mindset that got us into the war in the first place. Many so-called "Iraq war critics" criticize this administration rather than truly oppose the decades-old policies that led to war. They claim they will eventually get the troops out of Iraq, but the danger is that they simply plan to move them around to other countries, not bring them home. The American people want peace. Minding our own business is the best way to achieve it. Not only is it also a whole lot cheaper, but free trade and friendship with other countries benefits all involved.

This spending spree is exactly the wrong policy for an economy on the brink of recession. History has shown that all empires eventually crumble under a worthless currency and with an exhausted military.

Since too many of our nation's leaders haven't taken the time to learn from history, we are seeing mistakes repeated through recently enacted policies such as the new House budget.

The crumbling U.S. empire
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by IcyPeaceMaker View Post
The crumbling U.S. empire

...

House Democrats recently adopted a budget with massive tax hikes, many of which are directed at those Americans who can least afford them.

By allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire in 2010, this budget will raise income taxes not only on those in the highest income brackets, but raises the lowest bracket from 10 percent to 15 percent as well. Estates would again be taxed at 55 percent. The child tax credit would drop from $1,000 to $500. Senior citizens relying on investment income would be hurt by increases in dividend and capital gains taxes. It's not just that the Democrats want to raises taxes on the rich; they want to raises taxes on everybody.

The problem is, policing the world is expensive, and if elected officials insist upon continuing to fund our current foreign policy, the money has to come from somewhere. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have already cost us more than $1 trillion. ... [/url]
Trying to blame the Democrats for Bush Neo-Con war spending, tax cuts for the rich, excessive spending charged to the National Debt and record Trade Deficits is pretty BASS-ACKWARDS.

Bush and the Republican Congress has bankrupt American and now is the time for payback.

The problem is, we no longer have an economy to repay with. Republicans have shipped all the jobs and manufacturing offshore.

Morons will now learn that the world will NOT accept US Dollars when we have NOTHING to trade to buy them back them.

In the last month the value of the US Dollar has dropped 8%. America is finished and it was destroyed from within, but the Republican Neo-Cons.
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:06 AM
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Tax & spend, eh? That's your idea of a cure? Dems want to end the Bush tax cuts, which was the only worthwhile thing Bush did while in office.

I agree that the zionist neo-cons have borrowed and spent us into oblivion, the dems (if elected) will finish us off and make this country a truely communist state. Poverty and oppression will be the gifts they bring. They too are CFR zionists.

Where are we to find hope for our future and our country?
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:27 AM
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Christopher Laird article (from Prudentsquirrel.com), as Mr. Laird understands the current situation far better than most.

Gold Says That Central Banks Fail To Stop World Deleveraging

Right now, we are looking at the precipice of a total world financial collapse. When the stock markets finally let go, people will wake up to the reality of world financial bankruptcy. Millions of people will lose much of their retirement savings, in a super world stock crash, and you will again see stories about people refusing to open their 401k statements because they don't want to see how far down they are. That's what happened right after the Tech crash. Well, think of that episode as merely a taste of what is to come.

I am not exaggerating. To date, the US and EU central banks have put up an astounding $2.5 trillion worth of money to their respective banks and bond markets. They are doing this to prevent a total banking collapse. So far, they are barely staving off a massive wave of bank failures world wide, but particularly in the US and the EU region.

Unfortunately, the ones really on the hook for all this coming market collapse will be the big retirement funds, as they are the ones invested in all these bubbly world asset and financial markets. That shoe will drop.

Bond and securitized debt chaos

We are not going to detail the many stories about how the bond and credit markets are collapsing. But, suffice it to say that many huge credit markets are literally frozen. Whether it's the mortgage derivative securities, a $3 trillion plus market, or the US GSE markets, something like $ 7 trillion in size (this is Fannie and Freddie and such), or municipal bond markets, $10 or more trillion, and if you can believe this, or even the US treasury secondary market (already existing US T bonds that are sold between investors), these credit markets are freezing up in a big way.

Securitized debt markets new

Just to make a comment on this, the securitized debt market is fairly new. This is where large investors bought big packages of mortgages, or whatever kind of debt you can imagine like credit cards or student loans, that were securitized and sold off. There are many types of these, like CDOs, MBS, SIVs, etc. (CDO - Collateralized Debt Obligations, MBS - Mortgage Backed Securities, SIVs - Structured Investment Vehicles).

This type of lending became a standard in the last ten years, and has effectively absorbed the entire world lending market for everything from corporate bonds to municipal bonds to credit cards to mortgages.

Being a new and very complicated market, and utterly gigantic, the treasuries and central banks have stated that they don't understand them well enough to try and solve all the problems. The Fed, the ECB, and the BIS have all commented that they don't understand this new securitized world debt market that has taken over all credit worldwide. This is not a good thing - to put it mildly.

What I am trying to say is that this entire new, huge, world credit apparatus is now imploding.

Gold says central banks are failing this time

Gold has risen in tandem with the credit crisis because the central banks are falling behind the world credit deleveraging since August. If the gold markets felt that the central banks had a handle on the credit crisis and world financial meltdown, ie that cutting rates would work to stop financial deleveraging and economic contraction, then gold would not rise as much.

This time, gold is clearly giving a verdict that Central Banks are failing to reflate a massive world deleveraging, that markets are going to unwind no matter what the CBs attempt to do.

If central banks fail to reflate credit and financial markets, then the only alternative for world governments is big deficits. More programs to bail out banks, more central bank $ trillions to try to stem the losses...Effectively, more debasement of world currencies.

If central banks could succeed in stopping the world deleveraging, and stop the massive financial hemorrhaging on every consumer's balance sheet, every financial institution's balance sheets, then gold would not rise as much as it has. If gold expected things to normalize, and gold expected that central banks could escape outright monetization of problem markets this time, gold would not be rising as much as it is now. Gold is up 50% since August, when the credit crisis and world deleveraging began.

Clearly, gold has decided that central banks have lost control of the situation, and the only alternative is more interest rate cuts, which makes borrowing cheaper and is economically stimulative, but lowers the value of currencies. On top of interest rate cuts, central banks are now doing outright bailouts, which also devalue currencies. Outright bailouts are monetization.

World economy credit driven

The trouble is, none of these central bank efforts seem to be working. New big credit markets are freezing up each week. The already frozen ones are not recovering either. Given the fact that our world economy is primarily credit driven, what do you think that means for the next several years for the world economy? I'll let you answer that yourself.

What is happening in general is that financial and asset markets are deleveraging. The general world economic situation can be regarded this way, as deleveraging, and it won't be a bad oversimplification. All this borrowing that went into bidding up world financial and asset markets is now going to be unwound. I read a banker's comment around September that 'The credit unwinding will not be denied.'

That appears to be exactly what is happening.

USD, Yen, Euro, gold

If you agree with this, then what is the prognosis going forward for the Yen, Euro, and USD? And thusly for gold?

In a nutshell, the central banks will attempt to stop the deleveraging. They have failed so far, and will continue to fail. As the economic contraction worldwide gets more and more painful, they will make more big efforts to stop the deleveraging that 'will not be denied.'

At some point, I expect one of the central banks among the ECB or BOJ to give up on the reflation efforts (to counteract the deleveraging.) At some point, they will realize that the efforts to stop the deleveraging is futile, and only adding to public debt, and just making things worse.

At that point, everything just finishes unwinding rapidly. It will be very very scary for everyone and every country. The implications are really rather staggering.

Which is why the central banks are fighting this deleveraging as hard as they are now. In fact, the Fed would have cut interest rates faster, but they risk cutting the ground from the USD. Their hands are tied to a significant degree.

The ECB will be forced to cut this year, otherwise the Euro continues its painful strengthening. The Fed has basically no choice but to continue cutting. The alternative would be collapsing stock markets. That will likely happen anyway.

Maxed out this time

Basically, the only solution to massive unwinding of credit, theoretically, is to get borrowing and economic activity to start growing again. That way, world consumers would then start buying everything and, if the economies recover, then the present leverage out now can be carried forward.

But that is not happening, is it?
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Old 03-17-2008, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toxic View Post
Trying to blame the Democrats for Bush Neo-Con war spending, tax cuts for the rich, excessive spending charged to the National Debt and record Trade Deficits is pretty BASS-ACKWARDS.

Bush and the Republican Congress has bankrupt American and now is the time for payback.

The problem is, we no longer have an economy to repay with. Republicans have shipped all the jobs and manufacturing offshore.

Morons will now learn that the world will NOT accept US Dollars when we have NOTHING to trade to buy them back them.

In the last month the value of the US Dollar has dropped 8%. America is finished and it was destroyed from within, but the Republican Neo-Cons.
Pay back?? what kind of immature asshole are you???????
this is not about childless play ground rules. this is real life we are dealing with.
look on career builder, look on craigs list the manufacturing jobs are there in the U.S.A. the high tech job's are there, you fucking moron.
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Old 03-17-2008, 12:26 PM
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You folks talk as though your OPINIONS matter.................
blah,blah,blah, we ALL know what the problems are.
The ONLY real question is....what are YOU going to do about them (besides posturing and bitchin) ??
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Old 03-17-2008, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr_Zoidberg View Post
You folks talk as though your OPINIONS matter.................
blah,blah,blah, we ALL know what the problems are.
The ONLY real question is....what are YOU going to do about them (besides posturing and bitchin) ??
I Love these kind of guys. So forums like these donut help the issues. Nobody opinions matter....you need action. So you come to a ineffective forum filled with lacy bastards that don't find solutions and only bitch about shit.....and bitch about them, ineffectively, on the same forum. BRILLIANT!! stupidass.
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Old 03-17-2008, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Tax & spend, eh? That's your idea of a cure? Dems want to end the Bush tax cuts, which was the only worthwhile thing Bush did while in office.
>>>If you are going to spend (and Bush hasn't shown any inclination to stop spending on ANYTHING), you must tax. Otherwise, you HAVE to borrow. And unless you can repay what you borrow, the lenders (China, Japan, etc.) are going to stop lending. That's the sad situation we find ourselves in now. THANKS TO BUSH!!! We had a budget SURPLUS when Clinton left office. It's called Economics 101.
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Old 03-17-2008, 01:19 PM
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Excellent post toxic.

Except the Republicans had help. I think big government has had a agenda to bring Americans down to the level of other countries. That has been apparent at least since the Reagan presidency.

Bush has finished nailing the coffin door shut on the US economy. But he had help getting us to where we are, in past administrations not the least of which was Clintons signing of Nafta.

There is plenty of blame to go around for the mess we're in. Although generally the Democrats fiscal policies have been better for the economy. They could have stopped this and didn't. Then there is the American people themselves who voted these creeps into office and let the government run away from us, blame is assigned there too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by toxic View Post
Trying to blame the Democrats for Bush Neo-Con war spending, tax cuts for the rich, excessive spending charged to the National Debt and record Trade Deficits is pretty BASS-ACKWARDS.

Bush and the Republican Congress has bankrupt American and now is the time for payback.

The problem is, we no longer have an economy to repay with. Republicans have shipped all the jobs and manufacturing offshore.

Morons will now learn that the world will NOT accept US Dollars when we have NOTHING to trade to buy them back them.

In the last month the value of the US Dollar has dropped 8%. America is finished and it was destroyed from within, by the Republican Neo-Cons.
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Last edited by wvpeach; 03-17-2008 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 03-17-2008, 01:24 PM
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George

I think its pretty apparent that most posters here ate Awe never took economics 101 . ..........................unfortunately, that has helped allow the crooked politicians talk the uneducated into voting for them and has helped to put us in the mess we now find ourselves in.
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