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Old 01-13-2008, 01:21 PM
migueld's Avatar
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Default More proof that Ron Paul did not write the newsletters

If anyone is interested, Lew Rockwell is explicitly identified as "Ron Paul's ghost writer" in the November 1988 issue of American Libertarian edited by former LP News Editor Mike Holmes of Houston.


While his statements sometimes leave the impression that Mr Paul simply licensed his name to people with whom he had little contact, there is much evidence to the contrary. The newsletters that appeared under his name were published by M&M Graphics and Advertising, a company run by Mr Paul's longtime congressional campaign manager Mark Elam—which Mr Elam himself confirms. And according to numerous veterans of the libertarian movement, it was an open secret during the late-80s and early-90s who was ghostwriting the portions of Mr Paul's newsletters not penned by the congressman himself.


Lew Rockwell, founder of the Ludwig von Mises Institute, and members of his staff, among them Jeffrey Tucker, now editorial vice president of the Institute. Mr Rockwell denied authorship to Jamie Kirchick, the reporter whose New Republic article published earlier this week reignited controversy over the newsletters. But both Mr Rockwell (who attacked the New Republic article on his site) and Mr Tucker refused to discuss the matter with Democracy in America. ("Look at Mises.org," Mr Tucker told me, "I'm willing to take any responsibility for anything up there, OK?")


According to Wirkman Virkkala, formerly the managing editor of the libertarian monthly Liberty, the racist and survivalist elements that appeared in the newsletter were part of a deliberate "paleolibertarian" strategy, "a last gasp effort to try class hatred after the miserable showing of Ron Paul’s 1988 presidential effort." It is impossible now to prove individual authorship of any particular item in the newsletter, but it is equally impossible to believe that Mr Rockwell did not know of and approve what was going into the newsletter.





This matters because, while Mr Paul may disavow the sentiments that were expressed under his name over the years, he has scarcely disavowed Mr Rockwell, who remains a friend and adviser. Mr Rockwell is one of the congressman's most vigorous online boosters, accompanied him to an appearance on The Tonight Show, and often publishes Mr Paul's writings on his Web site. Mr Paul now says the identity of his ghostwriter is of no importance. But if the person responsible for spreading venom under his name for many years remains a close associate, it suggests that Mr Paul is at least prepared to countenance pandering to racists, however respectable his own views. The candidate owes his supporters a far more complete explanation than he has thus far provided.


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Last edited by migueld; 01-13-2008 at 01:35 PM.
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Old 01-13-2008, 01:57 PM
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20-30 years ago, everyone used those kind of thoughts and words. those who are slinging this mud did too. There has been a race war going on in this country since pre-MLK, and anyone who denies it is a liar and a fool.

We have all changed in the interim, our views have softened, except in the inner cities where things are still unbalanced.

I've changed my mind about bigotry. I know I've been an offender of sensibilities and didn't care. I've had a change of heart, because of a message I had long forgotten in this country where divicive issues are hammered home day after day. We are all so focused on our differences that we forget our similarities.

Ron Paul's message of INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY got me to thinking about a couple of things. First, what would America look like under this notion, devoid of a perpetual welfare state.
1) Those whom I have scorned for sloth and lacking ambition would be forced to face life on an equal footing and victimhood would evaporate. Minorities, given the genuine need to support themselves would change directions, no more preaching hate-whitey, they would have to focus on living first, then their focus would turn to prosparity, which necessarily includes pulling at the same end of the wagon we all are on, no more free rides.

2) With that done, then we truely could become unified along national lines instead of the social lines the CFR globalists and their lapdog MSM have created to divide us. A unified America, just think of it.

Anyway, Ron Paul is not that way. Was he ever? I doubt it, but I know he's not responsible for those articles, other than not being vigilant enough in reading what the ghost was writing in his name. That was a very volitile time, and many of us were thinking those thoughts, if not writing them.

Anyway, it no longer matters, except to those pushing victimhood and those with a political agenda.
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:55 AM
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migueld is right.

For the amount of support, both financial and moral, that so many of us have given this cause, which , it should be noted , has been right-minded, honest, and based on the belief that it is the ONLY correct path to the future before us , Ron Paul OWES US.

He owes us fight over Iowa.
He owes us a fight over NH.
He owes us a challenge to the use of E-voting.
He owes us a better refutation of the whole newsletter fiasco (nothing short of heads on a platter).
He owes it to us to live up to the ideals that this candidacy espouses , and that so many of us signed up for.

For a short while, Dr. Paul cured my apathy too , but maybe it's just been more "controlled opposition".
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Old 01-14-2008, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipes View Post
migueld is right.

For the amount of support, both financial and moral, that so many of us have given this cause, which , it should be noted , has been right-minded, honest, and based on the belief that it is the ONLY correct path to the future before us , Ron Paul OWES US.

He owes us fight over Iowa.
He owes us a fight over NH.
He owes us a challenge to the use of E-voting.
He owes us a better refutation of the whole newsletter fiasco (nothing short of heads on a platter).
He owes it to us to live up to the ideals that this candidacy espouses , and that so many of us signed up for.

For a short while, Dr. Paul cured my apathy too , but maybe it's just been more "controlled opposition".
He received slightly more votes than the poll numbers suggested. While I don't think polls are all that accurate, they sure as hell aren't off by 25%, so this bullshit of Paul being cheated in the counting is ridiculous. It only confirms that many of the Paul supporters will believe absolutely anything.

Does he owe you an explanation of why he appears in photos with known white supremacists and why he accepts a lot of their money?
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Old 01-14-2008, 12:27 PM
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It doesn't matter if he wrote them personally or not. Ron Paul was the owner and editor of that newsletter. He would have had to of read and approved of the content in each issue. That means he had direct knowledge of those articles and he did not issue a disclaimer with those articles which would leave one to logically believe that Ron Paul approved of the content and indeed agreed with said content.

He cannot squirm his way out of this by claiming he did not write them. This was a private newsletter not a large newspaper with lots of employees and editors. This was a newsletter with his name on it. I am sure that if Rush Limbaugh had articles like this in his newsletter he would not be able to get away with saying he did not write them even if he really didn't write them.

The owner of such a small publication is directly responsible for its content, and I hold Ron Paul FULLY accountable. No wiggle room there.
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Old 01-14-2008, 01:09 PM
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"He received slightly more votes than the poll numbers suggested. While I don't think polls are all that accurate, they sure as hell aren't off by 25%, so this bullshit of Paul being cheated in the counting is ridiculous. It only confirms that many of the Paul supporters will believe absolutely anything."

First, I never asserted that he won. Only that there was manipulation, and that supposedly having all this character and 'right-mindedness" should compel him to stand up and challenge this. At what % of manipulation do YOU draw the line? Obviously if it's only a little cheating here or there it's o.k. with you (at least as long as you don't perceive it to be harming you).


Second , he received less votes than polling (pre/post) suggested , and while I have stated before my disdain for polling, I will agree with you that the tabulated results often correlate to polling #'s,where there has been honest counting , and scientific polling.

Does he owe you an explanation of why he appears in photos with known white supremacists and why he accepts a lot of their money?"

I have to admit , I haven't seen the photo(s) of which you speak. I HAVE seen photos of assholes with Ron Paul t-shirts on. But then again , I think I read on the Internet that Charles Manson was supporting Dom1 as his Fuhrer , and has posted a picture with himself at a Dom1 fundraiser (although , even though I'll supposedly believe anything , this seems a little fishy, since I thought Chuck was still in jail-maybe they have photoshop on their computers in the pokey , or maybe he was there , and Dom1 didn't know or care , since he was, after all, fundraising and trying to gain votes for Fuhrer and all). I also wasn't aware of the Paul campaign publishing their "books". Perhaps you can shed some light onto the whole "accepting alot of their money" thing. It sounds to me to be VERY fact based and all , but for us morons , please give numbers showing all proven rascists , hate-mongers , and Nazis in general and how they how much they have contributed to the Ron Paul campaign, and then contrast that with all other campaigns , so that we can draw an accurate conclusion as to their agenda. Then please demonstrate by what means or mechanism any campaign (especially one in which most donations are less than $100), is to use to determine who potentially unsavory contributors might be , and by what standard they are to judge "unsavory" as.

And yes, if there is evidence of anything more than a receiving line style handshake relationship between these types and Paul , he would most definitely owe us an explanation.
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Old 01-14-2008, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by reccles44 View Post
It doesn't matter if he wrote them personally or not. Ron Paul was the owner and editor of that newsletter. He would have had to of read and approved of the content in each issue. That means he had direct knowledge of those articles and he did not issue a disclaimer with those articles which would leave one to logically believe that Ron Paul approved of the content and indeed agreed with said content.

He cannot squirm his way out of this by claiming he did not write them. This was a private newsletter not a large newspaper with lots of employees and editors. This was a newsletter with his name on it. I am sure that if Rush Limbaugh had articles like this in his newsletter he would not be able to get away with saying he did not write them even if he really didn't write them.

The owner of such a small publication is directly responsible for its content, and I hold Ron Paul FULLY accountable. No wiggle room there.

He has accepted "moral" responsibilty for the newsletters , which if a man is to be taken at his word (barring evidence to the contrary), should be sufficient. If in fact he did not author , nor editorialy approve these positions , and in fact , does not approve idealogically with these positions , HE OWES IT TO US TO SERVE UP THE HEAD OF THE MAN (MEN) THAT WROTE THEM.

I couldn't give a flying fudge what Limbaugh could/ would get away with saying- he's a guilty of leading America down the wrong path as the next tool. I'm talking about a candidate for President of the United States- one with a largely patriotic following with high ideals-and that candidate owes us more than he has given.
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Old 01-14-2008, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipes View Post
He has accepted "moral" responsibilty for the newsletters , which if a man is to be taken at his word (barring evidence to the contrary), should be sufficient. If in fact he did not author , nor editorialy approve these positions , and in fact , does not approve idealogically with these positions , HE OWES IT TO US TO SERVE UP THE HEAD OF THE MAN (MEN) THAT WROTE THEM.

I couldn't give a flying fudge what Limbaugh could/ would get away with saying- he's a guilty of leading America down the wrong path as the next tool. I'm talking about a candidate for President of the United States- one with a largely patriotic following with high ideals-and that candidate owes us more than he has given.
The problem I was identifying here is the fact that so many hold this guy up to be a moder Messiah. When in truth, he is far from it. Yes he says the right things when it comes to individual and states rights as they pertain to the Constitution. And I would protect Paul's right to say what his newsletters said (and I don't buy the bull crap that he didn't write them or know who did) but it doesn't mean that what he says is right.
As for Limbaugh, what happens to him should be of import to you and every American because it shows that when you don't think like the "main stream politically correct elites" you will get lambasted, tar and feathered unless you can serve a purpose. The only reason Paul is not being hard pressed about this stuff is because the left sees him as a potential Republican spoiler. Just like Huckabe. Just wait till after the conventions, you will see the left start destroying Paul, Huckabe and anyone else who they deem to be a threat to their base of power.
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Old 01-14-2008, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by pipes View Post
First, I never asserted that he won. Only that there was manipulation, and that supposedly having all this character and 'right-mindedness" should compel him to stand up and challenge this. At what % of manipulation do YOU draw the line? Obviously if it's only a little cheating here or there it's o.k. with you (at least as long as you don't perceive it to be harming you).


Second , he received less votes than polling (pre/post) suggested , and while I have stated before my disdain for polling, I will agree with you that the tabulated results often correlate to polling #'s,where there has been honest counting , and scientific polling.

Does he owe you an explanation of why he appears in photos with known white supremacists and why he accepts a lot of their money?"

I have to admit , I haven't seen the photo(s) of which you speak. I HAVE seen photos of assholes with Ron Paul t-shirts on. But then again , I think I read on the Internet that Charles Manson was supporting Dom1 as his Fuhrer , and has posted a picture with himself at a Dom1 fundraiser (although , even though I'll supposedly believe anything , this seems a little fishy, since I thought Chuck was still in jail-maybe they have photoshop on their computers in the pokey , or maybe he was there , and Dom1 didn't know or care , since he was, after all, fundraising and trying to gain votes for Fuhrer and all). I also wasn't aware of the Paul campaign publishing their "books". Perhaps you can shed some light onto the whole "accepting alot of their money" thing. It sounds to me to be VERY fact based and all , but for us morons , please give numbers showing all proven rascists , hate-mongers , and Nazis in general and how they how much they have contributed to the Ron Paul campaign, and then contrast that with all other campaigns , so that we can draw an accurate conclusion as to their agenda. Then please demonstrate by what means or mechanism any campaign (especially one in which most donations are less than $100), is to use to determine who potentially unsavory contributors might be , and by what standard they are to judge "unsavory" as.

And yes, if there is evidence of anything more than a receiving line style handshake relationship between these types and Paul , he would most definitely owe us an explanation.
What manipulation?!?!?!?!?!?! Unless you can come up with anything then it is an unjustified statement. You just scream "cheater" when you don't win, pretty pathetic. The guy got more votes than predicted and you think he was cheated somehow???

He did not receive less votes than predicted. You are going by the internet and text message polls that Paul supporters flood, polls where people are actaully asked questions he did not poll very well. Maybe because people like you couldn't then vote twenty times for your candidate, like on internet straw polls.

He doesn't owe me any explanations, I don't give a shit what the guy is going to do. I would care if he would ever have a chance at being president of the United States . . . . but he doesn't. If he wants to get mroe votes he probably should explain why he has photo ops with neo-nazis and takes a boat load of their money for his campaign though. Stormfront even has a link to take you to a place to donate money to Paul, and Paul has appeared with both Don Black and his son. They are easy to find, just google Paul + Don Black.
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Old 01-14-2008, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom1 View Post
What manipulation?!?!?!?!?!?! Unless you can come up with anything then it is an unjustified statement. You just scream "cheater" when you don't win, pretty pathetic.
Seems to me that you don't read or pay any attention to what is happing,

"The head clerk of the New Hampshire town of Sutton has been forced to admit that Ron Paul received 31 votes yet when the final amount was transferred to a summary sheet and sent out to the media, the total was listed as zero. The fiasco throws the entire primary into doubt and could lead to a re-count."

That enough proof for you?..or would you like me to keep reposting all this shit that you could find out with a simple search?
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