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08-06-2006, 10:23 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Military Career of our Commander in Chief
Bush's DWI revelation at the end of the 2000 Presidential campaign may have been leaked to cover a much bigger scandal
On November 2, 2000, four days before the most disputed election in American history, military veterans in the US Senate lashed out at candidate George W Bush for his failure to explain a six-month lapse in his National Guard service. "At the least, I would have been court-martialed. At the least, I would have been placed in prison," Senator Daniel Inouye said.
Bush would offer no explanation for his absence and, as he had throughout his campaign for the presidency and while in the White House. Why has Bush refused to discuss his military service during the Vietnam War? Why would a man who hsas ran for the office of Commander and Chief of the US Armed Forces and has boasted as being a WAR PRESIDENT;refuse to discuss his service in the military? Why didn't the public and press take notice? Their attention that day was focused on something else.
That same day, while senators were asking for an explanation of Bush's National Guard absence, the media and the public were watching another breaking Bush scandal: the sudden revelation of a 1976 drunk driving conviction that Bush had failed to mention during the campaign. As Bush spent the final days before the election explaining to America that he hid the arrest to protect his daughters, the National Guard absence was swept under the rug, not made into a campaign issue by Democrats.
Both Candidates avoided making Vietnam an issue during the Presidential race of 2000. Bush and Al Gore, who served in Vietnam as an Army journalist, had a sort of unwritten understanding that their military service during the Vietnam war would not be a subject of campaign debate. Both had been accused of using their fathers' influence to avoid combat in the war. Gore's father was a senator, Bush's father was a Congressman.
The Washington Post reports that Bush joined the National Guard 12 days before his student deferment would have expired, and that in spite of his low score on the pilot's aptitude test (25, the lowest score allowed), and in spite of the waiting list that some kids spent years on, Bush was sworn in as an airman the day he applied. Indeed, so giddy was Bush's commander, Col. Walter B. "Buck" Staudt, that he later staged a special ceremony so he could have his picture taken giving Bush the oath, instead of the captain who actually had sworn Bush in. Bush spent two years learning to fly airplanes in his home state of Texas.
As the 2000 Presidential campaign moved along, angry veterans in Alabama claimed that George W Bush never performed any military service in that state, as stated on his campaign website. They offered a reward of $1000 (which rose to $3,500) to anyone who could prove that he had. No one came forth with any proof.
Eight days before the election, the Boston Globe reported discrepancies between the Bush campaign's statements regarding his military service and what records and documents showed. In 1972, the Globe reported, Bush moved from Houston to Mobile, Alabama to work on a Senate campaign. It was at this time, the Globe found, that he was suspended from flight duty for not taking his annual flight physical. Furthermore, the Globe could find no evidence that he ever performed any drills while in Alabama, or any more drills after returning to Houston.
Bush refused to answer any questions concerning the charges. His official White House biography states, "He served as an F-102 pilot for the Texas Air National Guard before beginning his career in the oil and gas business in Midland in 1975..." but gives no further details about his military service.
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08-06-2006, 11:42 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mid-south
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Yes, and military records that people saw from him/Kerry/Gore/MaCain etal do not lie but Rove very skillfully was able to navigate through these troubling waters for Bush. I am not sure his record on this stuff is better or worse than Clinton but at this point it is water under the bridge and does not matter that much. Make sure the next election is a bit more up and up on each side. Bush never did come out and say 'I shot down 500 commies over Vietnam,' he was smart to keep his mouth shut and let Rove handle a record that was innocuous at best (the guy got a favor to get on the campaign trial for his Dad, he has very smartly kept his yap shut about it). That is what you do in politics. I don't like how Kerry was handled by Rove's team though, that was BS, his military record is bonafied and the only guys who even had any shit (manufactured) were the 'swifties.'
But you can't excuse Clinton either, James Carville pulled some mighty evil shit himself that smeared GHWB (a guy who I liked and thought to be a great C and C during my military service).
You have to put it all in perspective I guess. Politics and power just suck period, it is hard to find good people to get into office.
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08-07-2006, 02:28 AM
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Political Guru
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RASTAMAN
Bush's DWI revelation at the end of the 2000 Presidential campaign may have been leaked to cover a much bigger scandal
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We have seen all of this before. Do you have a point to make?
Or are you just addding logs to a fire to keep the anti-Bush flames going? Oh, wait. I know the answer to that question.
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08-07-2006, 08:14 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodgepodge
We have seen all of this before. Do you have a point to make?
Or are you just addding logs to a fire to keep the anti-Bush flames going? Oh, wait. I know the answer to that question.
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Excuse me but new folks are joining AWE and may not be aware of how Chicken George served his country. Lets not forget many of us may have short memories and are in complete denial; so why not bring this issue to the plate especially since Bush chose War over containment in Iraq. It seems Bush has become extremely Hawkish towards war just as long as he doesn't have to put himself and his loveones in harms way. In any regard please show me where this issue has been brought up and discussed.
I don't consider any reminders concerning the Hypocrisy of Bush as "Throwing Logs On The Fire" as you say. Which is it---speaking the truth about Bush is now suddenly "Anti-Bush" Rehtoric!!! You call it Anti-Bush, I call it bringing points of interest and attention about the real Bush. We all know how ROVE played a crucial roll cleaning up Bush's image. Hodge just get over it----not everyone views Bush in the same light you view him.
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08-07-2006, 09:07 AM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,035
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The future president joined the Guard in May 1968. Almost immediately, he began an extended period of training. Six weeks of basic training. Fifty-three weeks of flight training. Twenty-one weeks of fighter-interceptor training.
That was 80 weeks to begin with, and there were other training periods thrown in as well. It was full-time work. By the time it was over, Bush had served nearly two years.
Not two years of weekends. Two years.
After training, Bush kept flying, racking up hundreds of hours in F-102 jets. As he did, he accumulated points toward his National Guard service requirements. At the time, guardsmen were required to accumulate a minimum of 50 points to meet their yearly obligation.
According to records released earlier this year, Bush earned 253 points in his first year, May 1968 to May 1969 (since he joined in May 1968, his service thereafter was measured on a May-to-May basis).
Bush earned 340 points in 1969-1970. He earned 137 points in 1970-1971. And he earned 112 points in 1971-1972. The numbers indicate that in his first four years, Bush not only showed up, he showed up a lot. Did you know that?
That brings the story to May 1972 — the time that has been the focus of so many news reports — when Bush “deserted” (according to anti-Bush filmmaker Michael Moore) or went “AWOL” (according to Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee).
Bush asked for permission to go to Alabama to work on a Senate campaign. His superior officers said OK. Requests like that weren’t unusual, says retired Col. William Campenni, who flew with Bush in 1970 and 1971.
“In 1972, there was an enormous glut of pilots,” Campenni says. “The Vietnam War was winding down, and the Air Force was putting pilots in desk jobs. In ’72 or ’73, if you were a pilot, active or Guard, and you had an obligation and wanted to get out, no problem. In fact, you were helping them solve their problem.”
So Bush stopped flying. From May 1972 to May 1973, he earned just 56 points — not much, but enough to meet his requirement.
Then, in 1973, as Bush made plans to leave the Guard and go to Harvard Business School, he again started showing up frequently.
In June and July of 1973, he accumulated 56 points, enough to meet the minimum requirement for the 1973-1974 year.
Then, at his request, he was given permission to go. Bush received an honorable discharge after serving five years, four months and five days of his original six-year commitment. By that time, however, he had accumulated enough points in each year to cover six years of service.
During his service, Bush received high marks as a pilot.
A 1970 evaluation said Bush “clearly stands out as a top notch fighter interceptor pilot” and was “a natural leader whom his contemporaries look to for leadership.”
A 1971 evaluation called Bush “an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot” who “continually flies intercept missions with the unit to increase his proficiency even further.” And a 1972 evaluation called Bush “an exceptional fighter interceptor pilot and officer.”
__________________
Liberal-a person who has his cake, eats his cake, and complains that other people don't have cake, and believes that you should donate your cake to them
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08-07-2006, 09:27 AM
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Political Guru
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: toledo ohio
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I blame the democrats,for not keeping Bush's military record in the news to a bottomline answer was made public!
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08-07-2006, 09:36 AM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melchizedek22
I blame the democrats,for not keeping Bush's military record in the news to a bottomline answer was made public!
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LIke John Kerry has released all of HIS military records.
__________________
Liberal-a person who has his cake, eats his cake, and complains that other people don't have cake, and believes that you should donate your cake to them
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08-07-2006, 12:30 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: tundra
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The gov't has even lost my hubby's security clearance papers and they eventually surfaced, mind you, back in 1991. It's an endless paper trail and fortunately technology is much better compared to when Bush and Kerry served in the military, it's probably in a box somewhere in a storage unit long forgotten.
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08-07-2006, 01:45 PM
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Political Guru
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Houston, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RASTAMAN
Excuse me but new folks are joining AWE and may not be aware of how Chicken George served his country. Lets not forget many of us may have short memories and are in complete denial; so why not bring this issue to the plate especially since Bush chose War over containment in Iraq.
With Congress and the UN supporting his actions.
It seems Bush has become extremely Hawkish towards war just as long as he doesn't have to put himself and his loveones in harms way. In any regard please show me where this issue has been brought up and discussed.
I will see if I can find it.
I don't consider any reminders concerning the Hypocrisy of Bush as "Throwing Logs On The Fire" as you say. Which is it---speaking the truth about Bush is now suddenly "Anti-Bush" Rehtoric!!! You call it Anti-Bush, I call it bringing points of interest and attention about the real Bush.
If I ever saw you post anything about Bush that was in a positive light, I might believe your sincere wish to keep people informed. Even the worst of people must have at least one good attribute.
We all know how ROVE played a crucial roll cleaning up Bush's image. Hodge just get over it----not everyone views Bush in the same light you view him.
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Actually, I do not think you know how I view Bush. But I'll try to tell you.
1. I deeply respect the Office of the President and do not want to see it besmearched because someone hates the President. I have felt this wat as long as I can remember. I remember when Kennedy was President so I have seen a few men in that job. All had some good traits and all had some bad ones too.
2. I did vote for President Bush. Twice. I am not pleased with many things he has done. Some of the things I am not happy about are:
- No clear exit strategy for Iraq.
- Deficit is huge. Mainly because of the war, but I think it may be huge even if there was not a war.
- Some of the points within the Patriot Act. I am a fervent Constitutionalist. Dome things that this administration, IMHO, have gone too far.
- Leadership of the agenda for Congress. He could have gotten a lot more done.
- No Child Left Behind. Great idea, but it is just another unfunded mandate.
There are five things that I do not like about the administration.
Would I vote for him again? Maybe. In my opinion, Gore and Kerry are two of the same cloth. Typical modern Democrats. Government knows better than the people how to spend their money. Large tax hikes are good. Smear successul business to make the "common man" think they are good guys.
What do I respect most about President Bush? Foremost is his strict adherance to his beliefs. Like them or not, you know where he stands and he does not change his core beliefs based on popularity or polls. I believe that he sincerely wants to cripple terrorism and the people who support it. I know where he stands. He stands for the safety of the people of America. While many people think he has gone too far (including me) in trying to bring safety to America and the world, he is sticking to the course he set. For that is is called a lap dog, a brown shirt, and worse.
The point is, I truly believe his heart is in the right place. He has made mistakes in the execution, as I have pointed out above, but I believe that he is trying his best to do what he thinks is right for this country.
What irritates me is when people who disagree with him resort to name calling and spewing forth claims that he is evil, stupid, sleeping with Sec. State Rice, deceitful, etc.
Mind you, I grew up in a serious Democrat family. My father was involved in Democrat politics for years (not as an elected official). In my first election, I voted for Barbara Jordan (a liberal black woman) for Congress. For a time, I supported Jerry Brown (from California). My father and I had many vigorous debates about politics.
If you would like to discuss the good and bad points of the last nine presidents (whose administrations I personally remember) I would be glad to. But I get very tired when people make consistently one sided claims to have proof of something bad when it is really an opinion. And for people to not recognize that Bush's performance is grey - not black and white, I am very leery.
That is my opinion. Not fact - opinion.
Last edited by Hodgepodge; 08-07-2006 at 01:46 PM.
Reason: Correct typos
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08-07-2006, 04:28 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mid-south
Posts: 12,078
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Quote:
The future president joined the Guard in May 1968. Almost immediately, he began an extended period of training. Six weeks of basic training. Fifty-three weeks of flight training. Twenty-one weeks of fighter-interceptor training.
That was 80 weeks to begin with, and there were other training periods thrown in as well. It was full-time work. By the time it was over, Bush had served nearly two years. ......ETC
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This lines up and anyone that can look at military records knows it. It has become 'fashionable' to go after candidates or people in office about military records. I have ALWAYS thought this to BE TOTAL B***SH** of the HIGHEST ORDER!!!! It makes me very upset and for good reason. If you have served (6 years in the Army for me) you know the military takes extensive records on you from the time of induction to the time of discharge...you basically can't s*** without them writing it down. Yes, there can be times when certain events can get manipulated by a commander but that just does not happen that often and the entire file for someone will outwiegh the stupid stuff journalists or a group like the 'swifties' like to try and 'cherry pick.'
I did not vote for Bush twice and all three of the candidates from the two major parties should have totally been left alone as per disputing military records (Bush vs Gore, Bush vs Kerry). Even Rove's people went after McCain's records and that is despicable (Bush should have said NO to Rove) . Dan Rather going after Bush was very unprofessional and this stuff is BS that you have put down RASTAMAN, you should stop (that is my advice). Have you actually gone to Fort Leavanworth Kansas (most old paper records get sent there)and read Bush's old Air Force Reserve files? If not you might as well be believing Rueter's new 'doctored' pics of bombings in Lebanon.
I don't like the son Bush as a president but I did like the dad GHWB (GWB, he was fine as the gov of Texas, I lived there at that time) and I personally think GWB will go down as one of our worst presidents because he has let some very bad people do his job for him. But unless someone has been given anything less than than an 'honorable discharge' then leave that aspect of the man alone. And both dad and son Bush have that status, drop it...new people on this site would be better served to stick with the REAL problems that Bush (visa Dick Cheney and Rumsfeld) has created.
Quote:
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1. I deeply respect the Office of the President and do not want to see it besmearched because someone hates the President. I have felt this wat as long as I can remember. I remember when Kennedy was President so I have seen a few men in that job. All had some good traits and all had some bad ones too.
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I share the feelings HodgePodge has about this very much and we even
vote differently. I think the both of us have been around long enough to know we all should respect our system as much as possible.
Being in our military is one of our most honored traditions in our country and I am very proud I served and got the oportunity. When we continue to go after these records it devaluates the nature of that service and job for all and any one young person who might want to serve themselves. Yes, the government makes mistakes but the people down on the ground themselves from the military work their damn butts off and when you keep going after Bush or even Murtha or Kerry (ie the military record) you go after them, the regular soldier...that is the way it works! I am deeply disturbed by the Marines up on charges of rape and murder over in Iraq, that is a mess. But they are being made to look like they are the entire problem with
the occupation itself...that is BS too.
Last edited by cat's meow; 08-07-2006 at 04:30 PM.
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