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  1. #1
    houseknight is offline Political Mastermind
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    Default Two-State solution

    http://www.israpundit.com/2008/?p=16957

    September 14, 2009
    World Leaders Ignore International Law in the name of International Law
    By Eli Hertz

    The U.S. Administration, the European Union, the United Nations, and Russia’s decision to rewrite history by labeling the Territories ‘Occupied Territories,’ the Settlements as an ‘Obstacle to Peace’ and ‘Not Legitimate,’ thus endowing them with an aura of bogus statehood and a false history. The use of these dishonest loaded terms, empowers terrorism and incites Palestinian Arabs with the right to use all measures to expel Israel.

    The Jewish People’s Right to the Land of Israel

    The “Mandate for Palestine” & the Law of War

    Ban Ki-moon, Hillary Clinton and Javier Solana became victims to the ‘Occupation’ mantra their own organization has repeated over and over in their propaganda campaign to legitimize the Arab position.

    The “Road Map” vision, as well as continuous pressure from the “Quartet” (U.S., the European Union, the UN and Russia) to surrender parts of the Land of Israel are contrary to international law that firmly call to “encourage … close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.” ...
    Any attempt to negate the Jewish people’s right to Palestine - Eretz-Israel, and to deny them access and control in the area designated for the Jewish people by the League of Nations is a serious infringement of international law.

    International Law - The “Mandate for Palestine”

    The “Mandate for Palestine” an historical League of Nations document, laid down the Jewish legal right under international law to settle anywhere in western Palestine, the area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, an entitlement unaltered in international law. Fifty-one member countries - the entire League of Nations - unanimously declared on July 24, 1922:

    “Whereas recognition has been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country.”

    On June 30, 1922, a joint resolution of both Houses of Congress of the United States unanimously endorsed the “Mandate for Palestine”:

    “Favoring the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.

    “Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled. That the United States of America favors the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which should prejudice the civil and religious rights of Christian and all other non-Jewish communities in Palestine, and that the holy places and religious buildings and sites in Palestine shall be adequately protected.” [italics in the original]

    Law of War - Arab Unlawful Acts of Aggression in 1948

    Six months before the War of Independence in 1948, Palestinian Arabs launched a series of riots, pillaging, and bloodletting. Then came the invasion of seven Arab armies from neighboring states attempting to prevent the establishment of a Jewish state in accordance with the UN’s 1947 recommendation to Partition Palestine, a plan the Arabs rejected.

    The Jewish state not only survived, it came into possession of territories - land from which its adversaries launched their first attempt to destroy the newly created State of Israel.

    Israel’s citizens understood that defeat meant the end of their Jewish state before it could even get off the ground.
    ...
    6,000 Israelis died as a result of that war, in a population of 600,000. One percent of the Jewish population was gone. In American terms, the equivalent is 3 million American civilians and soldiers killed over an 18-month period.

    Israel’s War of Independence in 1948 was considered lawful and in self-defence as may be reflected in UN resolutions naming Israel a “peace loving State” when it applied for membership at the United Nations. Both the Security Council (4 March, 1949, S/RES/69) and the UN General Assembly (11 May, 1949, (A/RES/273 (III)) declared:

    “[Security Council] Decides in its judgment that Israel is a peace-loving State and is able and willing to carry out the obligations contained in the Charter …”

    Arab Unlawful Acts of Aggression in 1967

    In June 1967, the combined armies of Egypt, Syria, and Jordan attacked Israel with the clear purpose expressed by Egypt’s President: “Destruction of Israel.” At the end of what is now known as the Six-Day War, Israel, against all odds, was victorious and in possession of the territories of Judea and Samaria [E.H., The West Bank], Sinai and the Golan Heights.

    International law makes a clear distinction between defensive wars and wars of aggression...

    Who Starts Wars Does Matter

    Professor, Judge Stephen M. Schwebel, past President of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) states the following facts:

    “The facts of the June 1967 ‘Six Day War’ demonstrate that Israel reacted defensively against the threat and use of force against her by her Arab neighbors. This is indicated by the fact that Israel responded to Egypt’s prior closure of the Straits of Tiran, its proclamation of a blockade of the Israeli port of Eilat, and the manifest threat of the UAR’s [The state formed by the union of the republics of Egypt and Syria in 1958] use of force inherent in its massing of troops in Sinai, coupled with its ejection of UNEF.

    “It is indicated by the fact that, upon Israeli responsive action against the UAR, Jordan initiated hostilities against Israel. It is suggested as well by the fact that, despite the most intense efforts by the Arab States and their supporters,... to gain condemnation of Israel as an aggressor by the hospitable organs of the United Nations, those efforts were decisively defeated.

    “The conclusion to which these facts lead is that the Israeli conquest of Arab and Arab-held territory was defensive rather than aggressive conquest.”

    Judge Sir Elihu Lauterpacht wrote in 1968, one year after the 1967 Six-Day War:

    “On 5th June, 1967, Jordan deliberately overthrew the Armistice Agreement by attacking the Israeli-held part of Jerusalem. There was no question of this Jordanian action being a reaction to any Israeli attack. It took place notwith¬standing explicit Israeli assurances, conveyed to King Hussein through the U.N. Commander, that if Jordan did not attack Israel, Israel would not attack Jordan.

    “Although the charge of aggression is freely made against Israel in relation to the Six-Days War the fact remains that the two attempts made in the General Assembly in June-July 1967 to secure the condemnation of Israel as an aggressor failed. A clear and striking majority of the members of the U.N. voted against the proposition that Israel was an aggressor.”

    Israel Has the Better Title to the Territory of What Was Palestine, Including the Whole of Jerusalem

    International law makes it clear: All of Israel’s wars with its Arab neighbors were in self-defence.

    Professor, Judge Schwebel, wrote in What Weight to Conquest:

    “(a) a state [Israel] acting in lawful exercise of its right of self-defense may seize and occupy foreign territory as long as such seizure and occupation are necessary to its self-defense;

    “(b) as a condition of its withdrawal from such territory, that State may require the institution of security measures reasonably designed to ensure that that territory shall not again be used to mount a threat or use of force against it of such a nature as to justify exercise of self-defense;

    “(c) Where the prior holder of territory had seized that territory unlawfully, the state which subsequently takes that territory in the lawful exercise of self-defense has, against that prior holder, better title.

    “… as between Israel, acting defensively in 1948 and 1967, on the one hand, and her Arab neighbors, acting aggressively, in 1948 and 1967, on the other, Israel has the better title in the territory of what was Palestine, including the whole of Jerusalem, than do Jordan and Egypt.”
    ...
    Professor Julius Stone, a leading authority on the Law of Nations, stated:

    “Territorial Rights Under International Law…. By their [Arab countries] armed attacks against the State of Israel in 1948, 1967, and 1973, and by various acts of belligerency throughout this period, these Arab states flouted their basic obligations as United Nations members to refrain from threat or use of force against Israel’s territorial integrity and political independence. These acts were in flagrant violation inter alia of Article 2(4) and paragraphs (1), (2), and (3) of the same article.”
    Thus, under international law Israel acted lawfully by exercising its right to self-defence when it redeemed and legally reoccupied Judea and Samaria, known also as the West Bank.

    ...

    My note:
    Above is described Israel's position from legal point of view. Naturally, the reality is more complicated. Palestinians weren't legal side in 1948, 1967 and 1973 wars, but they still exist and the problem must be resolved.
    Let's consider my personal proposal for actual "Two-State solution". I believe, that real peace needn't transferring or discrimination of any group. Just like Israeli Arabs are full right citizens of Israel, the West Bank Jews should turn full right citizens of the West Bank Palestinian Authority, tied with Israel in the form of confederation. Then Jerusalem may turn common capital of Israel, Palestinian Authority and of Palestine-Israel confederation. Jordan Palestinian state will turn principal representative of Palestinian Nation, while Gaza may establish confederation tie with Jordan Palestine.
    Such is my authentical Two-State solution. The solution discussed for last decades is not 2-state, but 3 or 4-state formula.
    Last edited by houseknight; 09-15-2009 at 04:59 AM.

  2. #2
    sammy is offline Seasoned Veteran
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    Any evidence that Judaeans = Jews? If you eliminate all the "Fantasies of Josephus" series, there's nothing left.

    The Palestinian [insert mythology of choice] are all indigenous peoples. Brooklyn Jews with schizophrenic visions of land leases from the Tanakh are not.

    Just give up the ethnocentric freakiness and go home. Let the Palestinians breathe.
    Last edited by sammy; 09-15-2009 at 04:58 AM.

  3. #3
    houseknight is offline Political Mastermind
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammy View Post
    The Palestinian [insert mythology of choice] are all indigenous peoples.
    Hitler has developed racial theory, which was simply non-correct. On the basis of wrong theory he performed genocide.

    Palestinians are not indigenous people. Maybe, few percent of Palestinians have Jewish descent. Jews are not "pure race", too. The conflict cannot be resolved on racial ground at all. Finally, Palestinian HAMAS doesn't consider racial arguments, instead it does consider Muslim religious law. Apropos, Mahmud Abbas' family is 19 century Syrian immigrants to Palestine.

    Your racist antisemitic approach instigates bloodshed just like Muslim terrorism.

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    sammy is offline Seasoned Veteran
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    I'm a secular liberal and arguments that rejecting the "the right to be racist" equals antisemitism have no effect on me at all. If the truth be antisemitic, so be it. Ethnocentrism is anachronistic and appeals to the Tanakh make me roflmao. I consider Palestinians as indigenous to Palestine and Jews speaking a Canaanite language and "going back" to the Canaanite town of Shalem [or Urisalem] even when they reject the Ugaritic deities of El or his son Yahwah are all meaningless babble to me. I really don't give a shit what mythology you embrace to deprive people of basic human rights, if you run a state of apartheid, I'll be opposing you just the same whether its the Warsaw Intifada or the Bilin Intifada or the Soweto Intifada.

    Israel has made Jew into a swear word and diminished antisemitism to a joke that people are tired of hearing.
    Last edited by sammy; 09-15-2009 at 05:37 AM.

  5. #5
    Shamgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by houseknight View Post
    Hitler has developed racial theory, which was simply non-correct. On the basis of wrong theory he performed genocide.

    Palestinians are not indigenous people. Maybe, few percent of Palestinians have Jewish descent. Jews are not "pure race", too. The conflict cannot be resolved on racial ground at all. Finally, Palestinian HAMAS doesn't consider racial arguments, instead it does consider Muslim religious law. Apropos, Mahmud Abbas' family is 19 century Syrian immigrants to Palestine.

    Your racist antisemitic approach instigates bloodshed just like Muslim terrorism.

    Blah blah blah. . . .jews out Palis in . . . . is the only solution. . . .


  6. #6
    Shamgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammy View Post
    Israel has made Jew into a swear word and diminished antisemitism to a joke that people are tired of hearing.

  7. #7
    Mika-El's Avatar
    Mika-El is offline Machiavelli Incarnate
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammy View Post
    Any evidence that Judaeans = Jews? If you eliminate all the "Fantasies of Josephus" series, there's nothing left.

    The Palestinian [insert mythology of choice] are all indigenous peoples. Brooklyn Jews with schizophrenic visions of land leases from the Tanakh are not.

    Just give up the ethnocentric freakiness and go home. Let the Palestinians breathe.
    Well one thing is certain you are not Palestinian. If you were you would know that the actual Palestinian Muslims and Palestinian Christians you think you refer to are not all indigenous and the actual indigenous Palestinian peoples, who were Muslim, Christian and Jew, were ALL subject to an influx of non indigenous Muslims flooding Palestine including the areas known as Gaza and the West Bank when Britain illegally seized 85% of the land mandated for a Jewish state, set up a puppet monarchy, Jordan, referred to Jordan as a Palestinian state, and the Jordanian state created a law of return for any Muslim claimingt o be Palestinians granting them automatic citizenship as long as they were not Palestinian Jews.

    You would also know on the West Bank there is a conflict between actual indigenous Palestinians and those who claim to be Palestinian who came to the area as part of the British inspired influx of Muslim immigrants over the title to lands as much as there are disputes between those same indigenous Palestinians and Israelis.

    Your history of course and attempt to deny Jews are Jews is stale no matter how many socks you use-and it gives you a way. You are no Palestinian.

    Just a soft fat ass American who takes the freedom the country now offers you for granted.

    Care to send me a photo of you in the U.S. Army ass and tell me what a loyal American you are? Can't wait.

    Another arm-chair warrior fighting from Mama's basement and fantasizing about shooting people and blowing things up.

    Sammy. Love the name. So original.

    Now as for the Jews from Brooklyn that settled on the West Bank, I would agree that many of them are as fanatical and bigoted as you.

    Your point? My point is that ignorant people like you who try use the Palestinian-Israel conflict for their own agenda to incite hatred against Jews or Palestinians because you think its hilarious watching Muslims and Jews fight and makes you feel oh so superior may be a good giggle at Stormfront and it may continue your idiot sock comments on this forum with the handful of morons that are attracted to this thread site, but the fact is no one gives a flying fuck what you think, what you have to say, and your comments will disappear as quick as they come until you use yet a nother sock name and repeat the same thing.

    Last edited by Mika-El; 09-15-2009 at 07:14 AM.

  8. #8
    Mika-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammy View Post
    I'm a secular liberal and arguments that rejecting the "the right to be racist" equals antisemitism have no effect on me at all. If the truth be antisemitic, so be it. Ethnocentrism is anachronistic and appeals to the Tanakh make me roflmao. I consider Palestinians as indigenous to Palestine and Jews speaking a Canaanite language and "going back" to the Canaanite town of Shalem [or Urisalem] even when they reject the Ugaritic deities of El or his son Yahwah are all meaningless babble to me. I really don't give a shit what mythology you embrace to deprive people of basic human rights, if you run a state of apartheid, I'll be opposing you just the same whether its the Warsaw Intifada or the Bilin Intifada or the Soweto Intifada.

    Israel has made Jew into a swear word and diminished antisemitism to a joke that people are tired of hearing.
    Right on cue. White, upper middle class, privileged, Christian, American-lives in a segregated neighbourhood and thinks because he listens to rap music and eats at MacDonalds he is a "secular Liberal".

    What you are is a little fat rich boy who lives in a sheltered environment and thinks he is entitled to a world that hangs on every word like his Mama does and serves him.

  9. #9
    sammy is offline Seasoned Veteran
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    Hate to dispel those myths but I'm neither white, nor upper Middle class, nor Christian, nor "privileged" nor an American nor in a segregated neighborhood.

    And my Mama died years ago.

    And I know exactly how indigenous the Palestinians are and the Jews are not. Can't hide them halachic Cohen genes that put you in Ur with Abraham.
    Last edited by sammy; 09-15-2009 at 07:33 AM.

  10. #10
    kudzu is offline Machiavelli Incarnate
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammy View Post
    Hate to dispel those myths but I'm neither white, nor upper Middle class, nor Christian, nor "privileged" nor an American nor in a segregated neighborhood.

    And my Mama died years ago.

    And I know exactly how indigenous the Palestinians are and the Jews are not. Can't hide them halachic Cohen genes that put you in Ur with Abraham.

    Are you the engineer who grew up in Ramallah?

    Check out Sabeel in Galillee.

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