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Originally Posted by cat's meow
I am not sure you are very clear on the history of either war and how they compare......
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Oh, I’m very clear on the history of both wars and there was no “misunderstanding”. Just misinformation fed to the public by the so-called “balanced” media that has continually rejected all the facts and only put the bits and pieces it wanted out there for the public to see. The comparison between the two wars is also a matter of convenience, but I’ll get into that later.
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You are arguing way too many things at once... Whether you want to watch any media at all as compared to seeing what all the commanders have said/are saying does give one pause as to things that are parallel to the two conflicts....this comes from commanders of our armed forces. .
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There is only one argument; I can’t help it if you missed it. The press is adept in ferreting out the military leaders they know will either support their agenda and taking others comments out of context or using only those SoundBits they need. The Commanders of our armed forces have also stated, and it's been confirmed by al Qaeda leaders that this is not a civil war, and that thousands (4,000+) of those so-called “insurgence” were actually battle ready fighters from other countries (eg. Iran and Syria). I also made it clear that the construction of Iraq, not to be confused with “reconstruction” has been totally ignored by the media.
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To tell you the truth, the 'leftist media' has been far more constricted in my opinion (and the opinion of many journalists on both sides) as to what is going to be reported and shown. I give you the example of the Buddhist Monk self-immolation in Saigon in June of 1963.... Leftist tactic? .
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Thich Quang Duc was protesting religious persecution, which is why it was originally used to show ONE of the many reasons for the war. But, the leftist media used the footage to make the claim that Diem wouldn't have been in power if not for U.S. intervention, thereby turning his protest into an anti-war protest. So, yes, it was a leftist tactic.
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Second, in 1968 South Vietnamiese Gen. Nguyen Ngoc Loan was shown on a nightly news report putting a bullet in the head of a suspected North Vietnamiese Communist. Leftist tactic? .
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Allow me to give you a few examples of just the how the liberal media used this incident.
“The South Vietnamese officer whose point-blank, summary execution of a grimacing unarmed guerilla suspect is one of the more memorable and shocking images of the Vietnam War.” “Loan yanked an unarmed prisoner into a Saigon street, put his gun to the man's head, and pulled the trigger. He told the newsmen standing by that the prisoner was a Viet Cong captain.”
To the very day he died of cancer the media here spoke ill of this man.
CBS – “The picture was among three that came to symbolize the brutality of the war”
(AP) -" On Feb. 1, 1968, Loan was director of South Vietnam's national police and the North Vietnamese had just begun the Tet Offensive, their huge military push southward. Firefights had broken out all over Saigon, and Loan's police were trying to rid the South Vietnamese capital of Viet Cong guerrillas. Loan led the prisoner, his hands bound, onto a street corner and in front of a group of journalists pulled his pistol and shot the prisoner point-blank in the head."
Eddie Adams' photo of the execution won a Pulitzer Prize for The Associated Press.
Adams said that "Gen. Loan's actions were misinterpreted by the press".
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Either one of these can be argued either way and no footage EITHER way like the above mentioned has been able to make it out of Iraq within great scrutiny. Even talking about or focusing on the 'leftist' reporting is not a very strong argument in this. .
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Say what? The above statements clearly show how the media misused photos to sway sentiment during Vietnam. They've did exactly the same thing with the images out of abu Ghraib. There is very little positive that comes out of Iraq, but there seems to be a never ending supply of negative imagery coming out and there isn’t even one major media source here that has attempted to get the soldiers side to any of the negative stories they’ve printed about our troops. So, please don’t mock my intelligence by claiming that the media doesn’t take a liberal bent on this war, just as it did during Vietnam. That is the ONLY real parallel between the two wars and that's why liberals don't like to talk about it.
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First, American's dying is ALWAYS a concern.
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Of course it is....
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I have NEVER heard anyone LIBERAL or other wise use the term "cut and run." You should really stop using that, Karl Rove and his buddies made that up. ..... Also, if you listened to Sen Joe Biden on Meet the Press this morning he did give plan that is much better and is not 'cut and run.' .
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If they all fit in the same pot then that’s where they go. I didn’t realize that MSNBC could pull itself away from that ugly thing that Foley did to cover anything else. I’ll try to catch the transcript online tomorrow. Based on what I’ve heard out of the DNC’s 2008 pretty boy hopeful up to now “cut and run” by any other name is still “cut and run”.
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I am not sure how much TV you watch but I do not watch that show, why are you concerned about "The West Wing"?.
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It wasn’t about the show, but about Hollywood and how “entertainers” believe since they play politicians on TV they seem to think they have inside knowledge and use their popularity as “actors” to make a stage for voicing their liberal/anti-war diatribes.
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I will try to address what you have sadi but I am not very clear here. The ACTIONS and prosecution of the two wars are quite war parallel .....
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As I have said before, the ONLY parallel is that of how the media and the left have attacked this war from day one. Everything has turned negative so quickly this time because the media has more experience than they had during Vietnam and they know just how to put that hook in the public's mouth. The fact is, liberals in and out of the media bear a huge responsibility in the violent snowball effect they've caused over there.
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This is your interpretaion of the terms used.... There is very clear sectarian violence coincides with indiginous people wanting any Western power out....
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Incorrect, 90% of the violence in Iraq is spawned by outside influences. And one of the most powerful influences is the never ending negative info put out by Western media like the photo’s from abu Ghraib that were shown over and over… and over ad-nauseum and the plethora of “leaks”. How anyone can deny that this information is being handed to the press by anyone but opposing politicians for anything other than to cast our troops as bad and our President as evil is absolutely ludicrous.
Online was the only place images of the four contractors who were murdered, set on fire and hung from the bridge could be found or the video of Daniel Pearl, and others who were beheaded in Iraq and Afghanistan. It doesn’t seem to bother the media to incite Muslims into more violence against our troops and civilians over there but they sure are concerned about “upsetting” Americans with what their work has produced.
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...They are in a civil war...you need to get updated; all the news agencies have been using 'civil war' and know this...that is exactly what happened in the nationalistic fight going on in Indochina during hte 50s, 60s, and 70s. .
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As I stated before, the comparison of this war to Vietnam is a comparison of convenience and aggressively stimulated by using terms like “civil war”. I watched it happen during Vietnam and I've more than proven that they are doing the exact same thing now. The more people like you that they can sucker into believing this is a failed mission the more they can stir the political pot, and the hardline left has been calling this an "unwinnable war" from the start.
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First, many Republicans have wanted a time-line too. .
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No.. Only RINO cowards like McCain and Murtha want a specific date.
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Second, you are comparing apples and oranges when talking about Japan, Korea, and Germany to all this. .....I think that is quite valid in approach. .
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The fact is, you’re trying to make apples and apples by comparing this war to Vietnam when they are actually an apples and oranges situation. Liberals would love nothing more than to have a beer party in front of their wide screen TV's while they watch helicopters evacuating the last of our people (cutting and running) from Iraq, just as they watched and celebrated when we fled Vietnam.
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So? Clinton and his ilk had the same exact thing happen to them. What is your point? .
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Okay, who went after the Clinton administration and who did they get?
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AMERICA ABSOLUTELY SUPPORTS OUR TROOPS...on BOTH sides...but we do not want to be fighting a conflict that our leaders have misled us about and have far too many questions to be asked. This has little to do with our hard working troops but does very much have to do with our leadership that has been very problematic.
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Camel Crap.. Our troops hear the likes of the Vietnam traitor Kerry who calls them terrorists and Durbin who compares them to Nazis and there is NO doubt in their minds that half of this country is doing everything in its power to paint this as another Vietnam and they know without a doubt that means they will be coming home to people who did NOT support them or their cause, just as our troops in Vietnam were detested. You cannot speak out of both sides of your mouth and expect people to believe both versions of what you’re saying. Our troops are not that stupid.
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