Originally Posted by Gummer

Agreed ..... and the rest is ...... history ....... none of us here now had a hand in it ..... neither I nor jebe ...... it happened ..... it is what it is ..... I'm more interested in NOW and the future of ALL of us ......

Would it suit you to hand what we have to the "natives of this land" ...... (I admit NOT knowing what the "natives of this land" now called America called it before it became the United States America) ..... and let them solve the problems that face this nation from those in the world who consider us and our beliefs their enemy?

Originally Posted by jebe

two parts there. you cant just burry it under the rug. for what happened here was FAR worse then what happened with hilter, stalin and the jews and other races that were attacked at that time. we are talking of biological genocide. you cant just say, " well that happened then " when the profits from it are still in the ones who did its pockets. sorry Gummer. you need to take lessons learned form the nuremburg trials. this land was trashed BY the white peoples. for they have ruled it since 1763, and before. fix it, fix it NOW, and give us what you have always owed us. our dignity at being allowed to live with the respect you claim for yourselves.

Originally Posted by countryslim

Aww gee..I'm confused. I'm a fourth generation Texan, does that count?

Originally Posted by KokomoJoJo

That would be noble but how would you propose to accomplish that?

Its not like peeps havent tried to at least resolve it on paper and there to my knowledge has been nothing that is remotely viable.

Unlike the situation in israel where its not all that hard to resolve by simply tearing down their state lines, we are talking 300 million people in the us that you would need to figure out what to do with.

Jebe if on indian turf would come under whatever treaties were signed between tribal chiefs and the feds.

Gummer can prove he is De Jure National through ancestry much like Barbara Martin did. Its especially easy if you have original land contracts as evidence along with birth records.

Originally Posted by jebe

you missed the boat here entirely. NO NATIVE TRIBAL CHEIF has the authority to sign diddly sqwuat except his OWN rights.

Originally Posted by KokomoJoJo

Is that Indian... Law? Tradition? or?

Dont get me wrong... the indians got screwed just like the iraqis and afgahnis are now.

Originally Posted by canuck27

What do you think of the dual citizenship ?

Originally Posted by jebe

two parts there. you cant just burry it under the rug. for what happened here was FAR worse then what happened with hilter, stalin and the jews and other races that were attacked at that time. we are talking of biological genocide. you cant just say, " well that happened then " when the profits from it are still in the ones who did its pockets. sorry Gummer. you need to take lessons learned form the nuremburg trials. this land was trashed BY the white peoples. for they have ruled it since 1763, and before. fix it, fix it NOW, and give us what you have always owed us. our dignity at being allowed to live with the respect you claim for yourselves.

Originally Posted by Gummer

Sorry bud that shit is as lame as "reparations" ......

I don't believe I or you or anyone else "owes" descendants of generations past for the deeds of ancestors of generations past.

I'll give you an example of my logic.

Some blacks presently alive want to be paid "reparations" for the wrongs done them in the history of slavery in America ..... were such to be done ......

Shouldn't they start with the descendants of their own tribal cheiftains who sold them to slave traders in many cases?

Shouldn't they then proceed to the descendants of the Arab and Portuguese (and those of any other origin) slavers who bought them from their tribal chieftains or kidnapped them is some cases?

Shouldn't they then go to the descendants of those who bought, owned and abused their ancestors?

Then when they have been compensated for those past injustices ..... Shouldn't they pay at least half of that compensation to the descendants of those who fought and died in the Civil War that secured their freedom from slavery?

As far as I know ..... and some in my family have researched family history extensively ...... we have no slave owners in family history.

We do have many in our family history who fought, and some died, in the Union Army that defeated the South and ended slavery.

Again, following the scenario ..... such would logically follow, but I don't want any thing that I didn't get by my own effort. Sooooo as long as they don't try to hand me the bill they can keep it all .....should this Country become stupid enough to consider such ridiculous horseshit.

I don't owe them a fucking thing ....nor do they owe me.

And.... what about the present Americans whose ancestors were in some other part of the world when ALL of slavery ....beginning to end .... occured in America? Do the descendants of immigrants from those parts owe them too?

Someone can ALWAYS piss and moan or whine and snivel about what happened decades or hundred of years ago ......

Neither you nor I had a say or took an action in ANY of it.

My point is...... the past is history ..... we are all Americans NOW .....

And...... we have plenty of present and future to be concerned about now!

jebe ..... I like you.... but don't try to run a guilt trip on me ......

I'll take responsibility for that which I am guilty of.... and you can shop your guilt trip elsewhere.

Originally Posted by jebe

N O T A P R O B L E M Gummer. dont cry when others use the same rules yer side invented.