Is illegal immigration a problem? yeah, somewhat. It's a crime. If totally unchecked it might create serious problems with overpopulation.

But come on.

1. Illegal immigration is not the Alpha and the Omega of crime. I'm so sick of watching conservative commentators disect statistics to skew things and make it appear that Illegal immigrants (and often latinos as a whole) commit a dispreportionate number of crimes. Or worse, picking up on a single crime (such as that drunk driver hitting those two girls) and acting like its a reflection on the whole group of people. If you do this with other groups it sounds hilarious.

*Shaking a story in my hand Bill O'Reily syle* I have here a story of a LEGAL Citizen shooting two people in a robbery! How long will we let LELGALS get away with this kind of thing? Our government needs to act now!

2. Illegal immigration is not why you have no job. The fact that we now live in a global economy that will outsource even the head-set-reception part of making a drivethrough order to India because it is cheaper, is 99% of why we no longer have a manufacturing base in this country, not because illegal immigrants are sneaking in and taking those jobs. Even if we round up every last illegal immigrant and deport them all, then seal the boarder with a thousand-foot wall, this would not change.

3. You have no appreciation of geologic/anthropological time. What's the ultimate threat of illegal immigration when you really think about it? That someday, a thousand or more years from now we'll all be speaking spanish? Is that it? That kind of change is so slow, and so gradual, the idea that it would somehow effect you personally is nothing more than a sad joke.

More on this later...work calls.

It has nothing to do with overpopulation...unless your talking about prison populations

THEY ENTER THIS COUNTRY AS CRIMINALS!!!...do you really think they will have any problems with BREAKING THE LAW AGAIN???

Its not just crime...its the extra 20 million (future democrats) that are sucking and abusing the democrat provided social tit.


So those millions of jobs presently occupied by illegals.....would remain unfilled if the illegals left???

It seems you dont like the idea of American jobs being shipped overseas...but yet you have no problem with American jobs being stolen......even on American soil



The ultimate threat??.....when a country built on laws...disregards those laws and rewards criminals and punishes the citizens...that shall herald the end of the republic

This will reveal all you need to know
A vote for Democrats=A vote for Amnesty

Build the fence..we can put the minefields in later

__________________
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Teach a lib to fish--he is back the next day asking for more free fish

"no one in their right mind believes that humans are the sole cause of the warming trend."

You can hope for change--or you can get off your fat ass and change it yourself

Did you know that not only is the latino population under-represented in our prison system, but that of those illegal immigrants (based on estimates of course) are an under-represented sub-group?

Whenever conservative commentators try to make it seem like there are more latinos in prisons they either A: Just quote the raw number, which sounds huge but is actually a drop in the bucket if you use the prison population as a whole or B: Quote the percentage of Latinos in prison in an area that is already mostly Latino.

Of course one could argue that the reason illegal immigrants are not high in our prison population is because they actually deported as they should, but that would suggest our immigration policy is working as it stands, which I'm sure you don't agree with.



Well yeah, actually. They have a great incentive to avoid detection in general, let alone detection by the law. Most illegal immigrants work to keep their noses clean, even to the point of accepting the risk of unpaid work if the employer threatens to call "La Migra" if they complain.

Wrong again. This is another area where the failure of conservatives to diffienterate between legal latino citizens and illegal immigrants is an atrocity. Illegal immigrants are virtually absent from the welfare rolls and voting blocks. The 20 million that goes to the perfectly legitimate latino community is no different than the hundreds of millions used by poor white america.


So long as they chose to continue to pay as little as 15 cents an hour, yeah, I kinda think they would. Do you know any legal citizen who would rather work for 15 cents an hour then just be homelss?

I do have a problem with it, I just think that A. It's not the good jobs that have gone to Latinos, it's the cream of the crap and B. The solution is in truly penalizing those who traffic in illegal employees or pay subhuman wages, not in trying to sweep the workers away. As I say, illegal immigration is *a* problem, it's just not by a longshot the most important issue facing America today as some poeple treat it.

Okay, what evidence do you see that America's main source of deterioration is illegal immigration? I would blame globalization first and foremost, followed perhaps by a government that has been see-sawed back and forth over the years from expanding to fulfill needs by one side while being starved for any budget to do so by the other.

Do you feel these two problems are really less significant then people jumping the boarder to work for almost nothing?

Interesting, your thread just says that democrats support amnesty. It does not make ANY attempt to say WHY that's a bad thing.


Yes, I think it will be a beautiful thing when America is surrounded by a thousand-foot wall, obscuring sun and representing the freedom this country stands for.

Land mines would only sweeten the deal, we'd send the FUCK YOU the rest of the world deserves for not wanting to live in poverty and oppression and seeking the alternatives we used to offer.

Grow up. Tell my why immigration is worth all this fuss or get off the thread.

I do not expect a state that is not littered with this problem to understand it, but I live in Oklahoma!

Reply to #1- Since passing the best illegal immigration laws in the nation my states deportation vs. crime drop is directly comparable. Proving the crime rate among illegal immigrants is of a higher percentage than rates of legal citizens. Check it out for yourself from the OSBI reports...

Reply #2- Wrong again and as evidence I direct you to notice housing prices are dropping nationwide, but not in Oklahoma. Our new laws will take a business and possibly send the employer to jail for hiring an illegal which forces them to pay fair salaries to legal citizens. Not getting the cheap labor has kept our housing market way ahead the rest of the nation!

Reply #3- Read #1 and #2 which are already hard proved facts. In addition to those I direct you to look at mexico as a whole and tell me what you think.

I appreciate your opinions on illegals, and I agree with them. However, my assessment of the economic crisis is a lot different than yours, and I'd like to assert that job outsourcing is another such red-herring. The real criminals are the bankers setting bullshit loans, the stratification of the agricultural industry, the consolidation of wealth amassed by the top 1% of the world in the last decade, the continually reduced quality and value of education in the US, plus the taxes. This is why our economy is shit. Outsourcing diverts attention, though it is occurring, you have to understand that word implied a context designed to imprison you. What I mean is simple. The companies "outsourcing" would like you to think that this is some inevitable set of circumstances they can't afford else they'll fail to make a profit. This is not true. Whats happening is that import tax laws are being made, used, and circumvented very strategically to make it so that they can get their products cheaply. If we enforced an increased import tax from China, Taiwan, and Mexico etc, our economy would boom. Instead these people are setting up courts and legal processes preventing most Americans from getting access to those chinese manufacturers without paying a huge 27% import tax.

I think that English, being a superior language, will over course continue to prevail more so even than now as the worlds most spoken language. More on this if you'd like... when you get back from work.

I hold a minor in english, I love it, but it isn't universally better, just better for some things. We're a great language for nuance due to our sheer volume versus some others, but at the same time, our gramattical laws are some of the least consistant on planet earth due to the cobbled-together nature of it.

As for the rest, I like what you've posted and while I may not agree, there's nothing here I feel the need to dispute openly, you might well be right.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/okcrimn.htm

Looking at Oklahoma's crime rate, it seems like your crime rate dropped at the same time as most of the rest of the nations, whether they had hardline immigration laws or not. While they may have chosent to start deporting illegal immigrants during any part of this drop, this would indicate correlation but not causality.

If your state is taking as hardline a stance against employers as well as deporting illegal immigrants, I certainly applaud the approach. Too often it is the case that we ignore one side of the problem without paying any attention to the other.

That being said, I still don't see this as evidence that illegal immigrants are the cause of fluxuating house values. As you do well to point out, I don't live in a heavilly migrant-populated state, yet our housing values have dropped all the same. Clearly there is no regional link between immigrant population and houseing costs.

I've already dealt with your "hard facts" so we'll look at Mexico. What am I supposed to be looking at? Are you suggesting that Mexico is a mess purely by virtue of its population's racial makeup? You tread dangerous, indefensible ground if you do.

You just proved my point. Home prices are dropping nation wide except for Oklahoma. Why are homes here staying relatively unchanged?
Answer- Because removing illegals and forcing them to other states has caused an increase of LABORERS on new homes thus increasing the cost to build a home.

Many sub contractors hire illegals and the builders act ignorant to it since they deal with a legal citizen (the boss of the crew). Now, without illegals those bosses cannot offer cheap labor, which forces builders to pay a normal price for labor workers. Paying more for contract labor increases the cost of homes which is why our home prices have greatly out performed the rest of the nation. I bet Arizona has also out performed the nation but only *IF* they really are removing the illegals. A law uninforced is worthless and we are enforcing it here.

This country is indeed a Nation of Immigrants.

We Are Not A Nation Of Illegal Aliens!

Each and every person in this nation illegally, no matter their country of origin, is a rude Slap In The Face to each and every person who has "bothered" to go through the system to become naturalized citizens.

Put aside the "crime" portion of the argument. Let slide the "job" question. And please, "racist" propeganda is a lame demagoging attempt.

And what's left?

Illegal aliens have commited felonies by entering this Nation illegally.

We are a nation of laws as well. And whenever someone commits a criminal act, they are prosecuted and punished. Why are millions of felons allowed to walk free?

Because fools, like Agent Grey, refuse to recognize this as a problem.

__________________
If you want change stop electing "liberal: democrats and "radical" Republicans. Find and support true Conservatives; those who believe in fiscal responsibilities, individual accountability, and a smaller government, with less control of your daily life.